No advice here. We're having the same problem. She used to sleep until 630 but lately it's like 5-530 and it's just too early. Plus she's clearly still tired, so we've been putting her in bed with us and she's been sleeping the extra hour.
She STTN most nights, but bedtime is becoming a hellish nightmare. Ugh, CIO makes me so anxious, but we might finally have to give in to it.
I suspect she will do well with sleep training bc she is already a pretty good sleeper. Just be sure it's the road you want to take bc it can be tough. Cam is probably the worst I've heard of in terms of the first night so no way could she be that bad!
I think on average the first bedtime cry lasts 30minutes. Cam was 1hr20!!
No advice here. We're having the same problem. She used to sleep until 630 but lately it's like 5-530 and it's just too early. Plus she's clearly still tired, so we've been putting her in bed with us and she's been sleeping the extra hour.
She STTN most nights, but bedtime is becoming a hellish nightmare. Ugh, CIO makes me so anxious, but we might finally have to give in to it.
I suspect she will do well with sleep training bc she is already a pretty good sleeper. Just be sure it's the road you want to take bc it can be tough. Cam is probably the worst I've heard of in terms of the first night so no way could she be that bad!
I think on average the first bedtime cry lasts 30minutes. Cam was 1hr20!!
our stubbon girl also put up a fight for an hour++ the first night. now even on her worst days she goes down in 20 minutes. It's so nice to know that I get a little me time before bed.
gdaisy09 Yes! It has been life changing for us. Naps still leave a lot to be desired but they are still much better than before.
Although I'm worried about jet lag when we fly to the US in August. Not really sure how that's going to work.
our naps are slowly getting better, she actually took a short nap at the pool on sunday.
When we did East coast > west coast and then back again we had to take a just go with it approach. our first day back on the east coast was hard, but we got by watching tired signs and letting bedtime happen when it did, we woke her up at normal time the next day and tried really had to stick to her regular schedule.
Naps are easy for us. She's a pretty consistent three nap a day gal. Goes down easy and generally stays down for an hour plus. Not sure why bedtime is such a damn fight
Naps are easy for us. She's a pretty consistent three nap a day gal. Goes down easy and generally stays down for an hour plus. Not sure why bedtime is such a damn fight
You have probably mentioned this before, but do you have a bedtime routine in place? Bath, bottle, rocking, etc.? I'm sure you do, but just wanted to mention it.
Post by obscurereference on Jul 26, 2016 16:40:45 GMT -5
Probably getting a little on the older end for 3 naps. Maybe she's not tired at bedtime? cnf2013
Eta: I would try dropping the last nap first if you don't want to do CIO. I shoot for the magic 2-3-4 awake time. Usually she's pretty fussy by bedtime but if we can hold out she goes down quickly.
Naps are easy for us. She's a pretty consistent three nap a day gal. Goes down easy and generally stays down for an hour plus. Not sure why bedtime is such a damn fight
You have probably mentioned this before, but do you have a bedtime routine in place? Bath, bottle, rocking, etc.? I'm sure you do, but just wanted to mention it.
Nothing major. Wrap up in her blanket and rock while drinking her bottle, then wubbanub while we snuggle until she's sleepy.
Probably getting a little on the older end for 3 naps. Maybe she's not tired at bedtime? cnf2013
Eta: I would try dropping the last nap first if you don't want to do CIO. I shoot for the magic 2-3-4 awake time. Usually she's pretty fussy by bedtime but if we can hold out she goes down quickly.
Today she's only taken two. We'll see if it makes a diffeRenee.
So I mentioned this on FB, but felt like I needed more. Similar to @thatgirlrachel, G was always an awesome sleeper. Bedtime wasn't filled with crying, she'd sleep a solid 12 hours, never dealt with a 4 mo regression, I thought she was magical. Then right about 6 months, she started waking randomly in the MOTN. I'd pick her up, rock her, nothing would help except nursing. So I thought she wasn't getting enough to eat during the day (my supply had been dropping and I'd been supplementing in bottles, but still nursing in the AM and bedtime). So I started doing more supplementing at home, but she'd still wake up and want to nurse. But once we did, she'd fall back asleep and be good for several more hours. The last couple weeks there have been a few nights were it's taken us nearly 2 hours to get her back to sleep. She'll fall asleep in my arms and as soon as she's back in the crib (well, 1 minute later because of course she waits till I'm back in bed), she starts crying again. Someone suggested CIO but I'm wondering if that's the right solution for this problem. Maybe she's just too tired so putting her in her crib already asleep is causing the problem?
tl;dr: We've gone from STTN to consistent MOTN wakeups after 6mo. Does she need to relearn how to put herself to sleep? Should I be better about putting her down awake but drowsy? Could she be going through a REALLY long development change? Do I need to try CIO even though it doesn't seem like we fit the usual "situation"? SO many questions!!!!
Post by expatmama11 on Jul 28, 2016 12:35:53 GMT -5
tina515 a few questions. How is she with going to sleep at bedtime?
Yes, I think she should be put down awake. If you put her down asleep she is not learning the skill of putting herself to sleep so therefore cannot get back to sleep on her own when she wakes in the middle of the night.
Hard for me to tell you to CIO, we did it and it worked but you need to do what you feel comfortable with. Maybe you could try putting her down to begin with awake and see how she responds to that??
I would also guess she isn't hungry but wants to nurse for comfort.
expatmama11 she's fine going to bed usually. Sometimes if I put her down awake, she's babbling and rolling all over the place and gets fussy when I walk away. I've put her down awake before, when she's really close to sleep, and haven't had issues. In short, i don't think she has a problem putting herself to sleep in general, but i think lately it's been harder for me to put her down awake but drowsy and have her actually go to sleep. I think she's more aware of what's going on now, so she's more likely to want to play if I put her down awake. But I will try tonight and see if that makes a difference.
I'm guessing she's not hungry either. Hard for me to beleive she used to be fine going 12 hours without eating and now all of a sudden she can't make it.
Last night her eyes were definitely open when I put her down to bed. She fell asleep and didn't make a peep. Until midnight. And then it was 2.5 hours of one of us going in and putting our hand on her back until she "fell back asleep" for a few minutes before crying again. Rinse and repeat. Then she was up at 6am. Researching CIO methods now. I really thought we'd gotten so lucky with her and wouldn't have to go through this
Last night her eyes were definitely open when I put her down to bed. She fell asleep and didn't make a peep. Until midnight. And then it was 2.5 hours of one of us going in and putting our hand on her back until she "fell back asleep" for a few minutes before crying again. Rinse and repeat. Then she was up at 6am. Researching CIO methods now. I really thought we'd gotten so lucky with her and wouldn't have to go through this
Ugh, so sorry. It sounds like she is pretty good at putting herself to sleep at the beginning of the night so you might be surprised at how well she does with CIO.
We started training G on Sunday. It had just gotten harder and harder to put her down awake and when she'd wake up in the MOTN it would take hours to put her back to sleep. The first couple nights went well, she fell asleep after a few minutes of crying, nothing awful, and STTN. Glorious. Then on Tuesday night, she cried for 15 minutes (the longest it's gone) before falling asleep. I thought it was supposed to get better as time went on, but maybe she just having a bad day. Then, she woke up at 4:15am on her tummy. She still doesn't roll to her back and I listened for 45 minutes while she whined and babbled facing the mattress. Finally she started getting really upset, so I went in to flip her over and all hell broke loose. I had to bring her in to bed with us to try for a few more minutes of sleep.
Then last night it happened again. I actually went into her room in the MOTN and flipped her over while she was still asleep, hoping to prevent a wake up situation. But at 445, she woke up on her tummy again, and couldn't flip over. i went in, flipped her, and she started crying. I tried to wait it out and went in after 10 minutes for a "shhhhh" check in. But that just made it worse. So back to our bed she went.
So D15 - what would you do? I try putting her on her tummy more during the day to get her to learn to flip herself, but all she wants to do is push herself up to sitting. Do i let her babble and get upset when she wakes up in this position? Do I forgo the "training" for now until she learns how to get over this situation and just deal with early morning bed sharing for awhile? any advice is appreciated!
tina515 I'm a ftm so I'm learning as I go lol, but I'll share with you what I did with DD until she finally (like barely over a week ago) learned to flip back over.
I would wait a little bit and when she started getting really upset I would flip her back over, tell her "Ily good night" which is what I say at bed time, then repeat several times. Sometimes I would have to put her pasi in her mouth and pat her butt until she was almost completely asleep, but unless she was just really inconsolable, I would remain firm about not picking her up. I have only ever rocked her to sleep at nap time since she was around 6 weeks, never bed time.
There are still a few nights here and there that I bring her to bed with us like if she's teething, but for the most part she stays in her crib.
Sometimes it's hard but I really feel like she sleeps better in her own bed.
I do her bedtime routine then turn all the lights out except her night light and tell her sweet dreams, Ily, etc and let her fall asleep herself.
So I haven't been in your exact situation, but I'll say what I've done in the past. Word of warning, we typically do full extinction (letting her cry with no check-ins) because she goes absolutely nuts if she sees us and it makes the crying so much longer.
When she has gotten herself into positions that she is uncomfortable in and is unable to get herself out of (arm stuck in slat, wedged in a corner, etc) we have always gone in to put her back in a safe and comfortable spot with minimal to no interaction and promptly left the room. She would typically cry harder for a little while, but eventually get herself back to sleep. Rocking to sleep or bringing into bed has never worked for her since de-swaddling anyway, so it's really our only option.
I will also say, that there were a ton of times when A first started getting herself onto her belly that I would go back in a million times to flip her, and she just kept rolling back. For us, that was the sign that she now likes to sleep on her belly. She stays like that all night and doesn't ever get back onto her back, but she is capable if she needed to.
Ultimately, you know your child and what you guys feel comfortable with; it's such a personal decision with sleep training. I hope you find a solution that works for you all soon!
First I would definitely try to avoid putting her in bed with you. Sorry, but by doing that you are just teaching her what will happen if she continues to cry.
Cam went through the rolling phase while ST also, I would go in and roll him back over after a certain period of time. Eventually he got used to his tummy and now only sleeps that way.
ST will have lots of ups and downs. Stick to what you feel comfortable with but know it will be hard. The long term benefits are wonderful though.
Just to give you some perspective. Cam would not sleep without being swaddled and then without being in our bed. He now sleeps 11-12hrs with no wake ups.
We are also in the group that avoided going into the room. Our presence always made Cameron more mad.
Thanks kida and physiomeg! I would be fine leaving her on her tummy if she preferred it. But she gets so upset. I htink i'll have to keep flipping her over and hoping she gets herself back to sleep. If only it happened at 2am instead of 5am. sigh.
Thanks expatmama I'm definitely gonna try to keep her out of our bed. I always thought it would get easier every night to put her down. But it's taking longer for her to stop crying. This is crazy hard
Thanks expatmama I'm definitely gonna try to keep her out of our bed. I always thought it would get easier every night to put her down. But it's taking longer for her to stop crying. This is crazy hard
Cameron went 1hr30min his first night! I promise it will get better.
Post by enigmaticdrscully on Aug 27, 2016 1:23:31 GMT -5
This may be a silly question, but for those of you doing any form of CIO, if you don't go in the room (or go in the room and have minimal interaction), how do you know LO isn't crying because or teething?
It is becoming quickly apparent to us that we are going to have to do something to help DD2 sleep better. (With DD1, she would quickly go back to sleep with just a pat, or put herself to sleep with minimal fussing by this age.) When DD2 wakes in the MOTN, she is perfectly happy and immediately goes back to sleep... as long as you are holding and rocking her. Any attempt to put her down, and she is immediately wide awake, shrieking, arms shaking, inconsolably upset. She is only pacified by being picked up again. She gets even more upset when we go into her room and pat her back or do anything to try to reassure her other than picking her up. I'm worried that if we just don't go in, that she could be upset for another reason and we'd be missing it. We have a video monitor, but she sleeps on her belly or side, and we can't always see her face.
This may be a silly question, but for those of you doing any form of CIO, if you don't go in the room (or go in the room and have minimal interaction), how do you know LO isn't crying because or teething?
It is becoming quickly apparent to us that we are going to have to do something to help DD2 sleep better. (With DD1, she would quickly go back to sleep with just a pat, or put herself to sleep with minimal fussing by this age.) When DD2 wakes in the MOTN, she is perfectly happy and immediately goes back to sleep... as long as you are holding and rocking her. Any attempt to put her down, and she is immediately wide awake, shrieking, arms shaking, inconsolably upset. She is only pacified by being picked up again. She gets even more upset when we go into her room and pat her back or do anything to try to reassure her other than picking her up. I'm worried that if we just don't go in, that she could be upset for another reason and we'd be missing it. We have a video monitor, but she sleeps on her belly or side, and we can't always see her face.
I say that we avoided going in when we were sleep training but we still did go on. We just didn't do it in regular intervals. We found on our first night it almost set him off more to have us in there every 10 minutes or so.
Now if he wakes up we go in after 10 minutes to check on him. I always check for fever, wetness, and really just overall wellness. You really do get to a good place where you can kind of tell if something is wrong or they we just having a random wake up. I am ok now with picking him up or letting him lay with me if necessary.
We never picked him up while sleep training though. I would personally hold off if you think she is having issues with teething, otherwise get it out of the way now. You would be surprised how quickly she will probably respond.
enigmaticdrscully if she is fussing, whining etc, I let her kind of fuss it out. Sometimes I go in and sing to her until she's calm. But if she's really crying or doing the things you mentioned such as arms shaking and the like, I pick her up because that is not the norm for her and usually indicates that something is wrong.
I just go by what is normal for her and if she seems more upset than just a little mad that she's not being picked up, it's time to sooth her. After a while it was easier to tell the difference between the cries.
enigmaticdrscully , We use how she was acting during the day as an indicator of whether this is sleep frustration or any thing that needs more attention (fever, teething, stuffiness, etc). Sometimes I would take her temperature if she seemed fussier during the bedtime process, just to ensure no fever. That would make me feel better if the crying went on longer than usual that she was likely not sick, just mad.
About halfway through sleep training, we had some rough teething nights. What we generally do for wake-ups is wait 10 minutes. We felt this was reasonable amount of time for her to fuss even if it were a fever or teething - this is a personal decision, thouigh. The only time that she's ever not been able to get herself back to sleep within that 10 minute period, was when her teeth were coming in (we had seen them earlier in the day, so we were warned). On that night, we did go in to give Tylenol and comfort her. We did the second half of the bedtime routine again (book, song, say goodnight to the room) and put her down again. She fell asleep quickly after that. Subsequent nights that she was fussy during the day from teething, we preemptively gave Tylenol so she would be more comfortable to start (it was 2 nights for us).
I will say, I do internally struggle with if it's just an off night or if I should go in. I try to set a time limit that I feel is reasonable for myself and based on A's norm before entering the room, which almost always results in her going down by herself.
ETA - A appears to be one of those kids that cries at bedtime as a norm. The pediatrician has said it's probably just her personality that she needs to the 10minutes or so of crying to release her energy. As PP have said, you get a feel quickly for what is normal for you child.
Post by obscurereference on Aug 27, 2016 17:23:58 GMT -5
We let her fuss a LOT. We only go in her room at night for full blown crying which is very rare. enigmaticdrscully, do you go in because she is crying MOTN?
Post by enigmaticdrscully on Aug 27, 2016 21:06:43 GMT -5
Thanks, everyone. Part of my trouble is that there's very little between silence and full-blown screaming. And full-blown screaming often starts as soon as I put her down. She will get to a point where she is quiet for a few minutes, then cries out for 30 seconds, then quiet again, then cries out again. Maybe that's what we should aim for.
Thanks, everyone. Part of my trouble is that there's very little between silence and full-blown screaming. And full-blown screaming often starts as soon as I put her down. She will get to a point where she is quiet for a few minutes, then cries out for 30 seconds, then quiet again, then cries out again. Maybe that's what we should aim for.
Cameron was just like that so I feel for you! I promise that it will get better and you will be so excited when you see her go to sleep on her own within a few minutes. It's amazing!!
Help me here. Does sleep training mean STTN or going to sleep in crib? DS sleeps good, but only in a sleep sack. When do you stop the sleep sack? I sent him to daycare without one when we started back, but he was not really napping until they started using one there.
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