"The Littles Project"? Really?

[mrsb22]

Feb 18, 2015 22:30:18 GMT -5 NariaDreaming said:

Feb 18, 2015 22:10:31 GMT -5 theophania said:

You guys would not believe how hard it is to try to find something to include so many groups of people.

This. It's been a hell of a process, but when I saw the suggestion of Then Comes Family, it felt like putting on my favorite pair of jeans- comfortable and natural.

I feel exactly like NariaDreaming about this name. I haven't really liked any of the suggestions yet, there were some contenders but nothing that really felt right to me, but when I first read Then Comes Family, it seemed to fit perfectly to me. ::thumbs up::

[EmeraldEyes85]

I've been out of the loop the past few days and completely missed the voting. But to me, The Littles Project sounds like a doccie on TLC (yes, we have that in South Africa!) about people with way to many children. Like octo-mom or something.

[EmeraldEyes85]

@lickwed I posted before I saw your post, but obviously we must be one person with one mind...

[mrswheelo]

I think it can mean all stages of LO's. Whether that is ttc, pregnancy, or raising baby. I think it encompasses all stages as a group. That being said, there could be a better name. I haven't seen it yet though. I don't like snarky anything. That's not who we are, just part of it.

[nikolie93]

Feb 18, 2015 22:52:02 GMT -5 @sarahwithanh said:

So here are my thoughts: (read whole thing)

At first the word family really bothered me. For lots of complex reasons both loss related and otherwise family is a very confusing and triggering word. However, after reading the explanation I find the name to be so completely perfect and beautiful! It made me want to tear up with warm fuzzies. I think when you HAVE to include that explanation somewhere on the website. It really is everything!!

P.s. Your words really gave me new feelings towards the word family.

 Thank you for stating what my mind is thinking but having a hard time typing out  

My first thought of "Family" was not a positive one (because I am super sensitive right now I guess) but, seriously, after reading the explanation I can see it. Mostly because the ladies here have become my "family". 

I do not envy the position that NariaDreaming,theophania,wordsy, and everyone else involved, are in to come up with something to encompass so many ladies in different parts of their journey. There is absolutely no way to make everyone happy when there are so many of us. I hope that everyone can understand how difficult a task it is.  I just want to thank all of you for everything you're doing and know that it's appreciated by us all  

Oh, and an extra thank you for not choosing "Littles project" or anything with snark in it.  

[bethkate]

Feb 19, 2015 7:51:10 GMT -5 @sarahwithanh said:

EmeraldEyes85 mrswheelo
Ladies read the last page or two. The name has been chosen and we are discussing the new name now.

p.s. I skim through posts that are long too so I get it.

I don't read every single response when it's a thread that's several pages long, but it's a good idea to at least read the beginning to see where then convo started and the end to see whether or not the topic changed.

We're well beyond "The Littles Project" at this point, and the voting thread is gone because a new name was proposed.

[EmeraldEyes85]

Feb 19, 2015 7:51:10 GMT -5 @sarahwithanh said:

EmeraldEyes85 mrswheelo
Ladies read the last page or two. The name has been chosen and we are discussing the new name now.

p.s. I skim through posts that are long too so I get it.

I admit that A) I am a very lazy reader and only skim through very long posts/threads and that B) I only saw the new name discussion thread after I replied on this one! I can live with Then Comes Family, although the sensitive post loss part of me can't help but question what if it never happens... That being said, most of come here in the hope and believe that it will happen!

[4furrypaws]

Feb 19, 2015 8:36:13 GMT -5 crimpgirl said:

Then comes family works for me.

On a personal note my hubby anytime I talk about the possibility of not being able to have a child reminds me we already are a family.

It's inclusive and works for me.

I love this. :::patsMrCrimpontheback:::

[bethkate]

Feb 19, 2015 8:43:06 GMT -5 EmeraldEyes85 said:

Feb 19, 2015 7:51:10 GMT -5 @sarahwithanh said:

EmeraldEyes85 mrswheelo
Ladies read the last page or two. The name has been chosen and we are discussing the new name now.

p.s. I skim through posts that are long too so I get it.

I admit that A) I am a very lazy reader and only skim through very long posts/threads and that B) I only saw the new name discussion thread after I replied on this one! I can live with Then Comes Family, although the sensitive post loss part of me can't help but question what if it never happens... That being said, most of come here in the hope and believe that it will happen!

Did you read the description of the new name? It doesn't specifically mean having a baby.

From the name proposal thread:

In reality, the process is nowhere near that simple. Life is not what we are taught to expect, but the reality is that what happens next is family. Deciding to spend the rest of your life with someone is the beginning of becoming that family. The shared experiences, traditions, and memories create a family, no matter the eventual size or path you take to get there.

Many people still have fairytale expectations when they get married. Unfortunately, happily ever after rarely lasts long. Oftentimes disappointments, death, divorce, and too many other circumstances crumble the fairytale, and you face a new normal.

Then Comes Family allows our community to change and challenge those norms by accepting and embracing all family dynamics, exactly as they are.

[EmeraldEyes85]

Feb 19, 2015 8:41:04 GMT -5 bethkate said:

Feb 19, 2015 7:51:10 GMT -5 @sarahwithanh said:

I will remember this in the future - sorry

Edit: Somehow I did the quote wrong, or snipped wrong, but what I wanted to say was I will read the first few and the last few in the future, to save myself from the same embaressment and feeling slightly stupid!

[EmeraldEyes85]

Feb 19, 2015 8:46:37 GMT -5 bethkate said:

Feb 19, 2015 8:43:06 GMT -5 EmeraldEyes85 said:

I admit that A) I am a very lazy reader and only skim through very long posts/threads and that B) I only saw the new name discussion thread after I replied on this one! I can live with Then Comes Family, although the sensitive post loss part of me can't help but question what if it never happens... That being said, most of come here in the hope and believe that it will happen!

Did you read the description of the new name? It doesn't specifically mean having a baby.

From the name proposal thread:

In reality, the process is nowhere near that simple. Life is not what we are taught to expect, but the reality is that what happens next is family. Deciding to spend the rest of your life with someone is the beginning of becoming that family. The shared experiences, traditions, and memories create a family, no matter the eventual size or path you take to get there.

Many people still have fairytale expectations when they get married. Unfortunately, happily ever after rarely lasts long. Oftentimes disappointments, death, divorce, and too many other circumstances crumble the fairytale, and you face a new normal.

Then Comes Family allows our community to change and challenge those norms by accepting and embracing all family dynamics, exactly as they are.

I did read it, but somehow in my mind it still seems that family includes having a baby... But that is my personal feeling, and I do not object to the name at all. And no matter what we call it in the end, it remains a place with a lot of awesome ladies, and I will stay here no matter what. As pp have said, we have all become family.

[lizblue]

Feb 19, 2015 8:50:59 GMT -5 EmeraldEyes85 said:

Feb 19, 2015 8:46:37 GMT -5 bethkate said:

Did you read the description of the new name? It doesn't specifically mean having a baby.

From the name proposal thread:

In reality, the process is nowhere near that simple. Life is not what we are taught to expect, but the reality is that what happens next is family. Deciding to spend the rest of your life with someone is the beginning of becoming that family. The shared experiences, traditions, and memories create a family, no matter the eventual size or path you take to get there.

Many people still have fairytale expectations when they get married. Unfortunately, happily ever after rarely lasts long. Oftentimes disappointments, death, divorce, and too many other circumstances crumble the fairytale, and you face a new normal.

Then Comes Family allows our community to change and challenge those norms by accepting and embracing all family dynamics, exactly as they are.

I did read it, but somehow in my mind it still seems that family includes having a baby... But that is my personal feeling, and I do not object to the name at all. And no matter what we call it in the end, it remains a place with a lot of awesome ladies, and I will stay here no matter what. As pp have said, we have all become family.

Well, I'm going to be annoying again and say that this post is exactly why I'm still not in love with the name.  But I can deal.  You are an admitted lazy reader, as are others, and people think family = having children.  Anything that needs to be explained with a lot of words is tricky.

But there doesn't seem to be a perfect name, and this comes pretty close.  So like I said, I'll deal.  And I do think it technically works and has great potential in light of the longer term plans for the site.

EmeraldEyes85, I hope you are able to expand your view of family to include those of us who don't have a baby, might never have a baby, or are no longer trying to have a baby.

[lizblue]

Feb 19, 2015 8:27:22 GMT -5 @wickedcandy said:

Feb 19, 2015 7:38:56 GMT -5 mrswheelo said:

I think it can mean all stages of LO's. Whether that is ttc, pregnancy, or raising baby. I think it encompasses all stages as a group. That being said, there could be a better name. I haven't seen it yet though. I don't like snarky anything. That's not who we are, just part of it.

For some reason, this is rubbing me the wrong way...

Why wicked?  Because it entirely leaves out entire groups of women on this site?  Oh yes, that's why! 


mrswheelo,  I hope you are able to understand that this is the exact problem with the original submission.  It does NOT encompass all stages since some of us will not ever have "LO"s.

[imnotfancy]

Feb 18, 2015 23:41:27 GMT -5 theophania said:

Feb 18, 2015 23:39:59 GMT -5 imnotfancy said:

Sorry, I didn't take the time to read this entire thread... Though I read to first few posts.
I think something like "The Honest... Something" or "Honestly... Something" would be descriptive for the community as a whole. But I don't like snarky or stork or littles....

$0.02

Check this post out: goodbyecb.proboards.com/threads/recent/14352

Thank you! I had missed this last night.

I do like Then Comes Family because it doesn't feel like the end of a journey, but an entire journey itself. And "family" means whatever you want it to mean. My best friend is my family, my dogs are my family, y'all are my family. And as a military family (just hubby and me), the friends I make when we are stationed away from parents, siblings, and cousins then become my family. "Family" doesn't just mean kids or being related by blood...
We all have a deep seeded need to be a part of a family, whatever that means to each of us and wherever that journey takes us. Even CNBC begins a journey of becoming a family without LOs. Same-sex couples have a journey of becoming a family, even if that doesn't include children.

[PetSquirrel]

Feb 19, 2015 10:41:54 GMT -5 lizblue said:

Feb 19, 2015 8:50:59 GMT -5 EmeraldEyes85 said:

I did read it, but somehow in my mind it still seems that family includes having a baby... But that is my personal feeling, and I do not object to the name at all. And no matter what we call it in the end, it remains a place with a lot of awesome ladies, and I will stay here no matter what. As pp have said, we have all become family.

Well, I'm going to be annoying again and say that this post is exactly why I'm still not in love with the name.  But I can deal.  You are an admitted lazy reader, as are others, and people think family = having children.  Anything that needs to be explained with a lot of words is tricky.

But there doesn't seem to be a perfect name, and this comes pretty close.  So like I said, I'll deal.  And I do think it technically works and has great potential in light of the longer term plans for the site.

EmeraldEyes85, I hope you are able to expand your view of family to include those of us who don't have a baby, might never have a baby, or are no longer trying to have a baby.

The very reason you have lingering misgivings .......extra characters for my stupid tablet... is the exact reason i have such high hopes for it. I want to challenge peoples conception of family=babies. The only way i see to do that is to stake claim on the word itself. Two people commited to a life together is a family. For example, i would give the smackdown to anyone that suggested when i married my husband, we weren't a family. What about you, EmeraldEyes85? Are you and yours really not a family? Does the lack of living children negate marriage and commitment and the intimacy you find with each other? In my view, family is a choice that begins when two people find each other and say ,"You. You are the one to share my life, and maybe our family may grow and maybe it won't, but we will have each other."

[PetSquirrel]

Feb 19, 2015 11:37:43 GMT -5 @wickedcandy said:

There seems to be a few assholes in this thread.. Dissaponted

But, ...stupid tablet... is it assholeness or could it be just being blind to ingrained societal prejudices? 

[PetSquirrel]

So sorry for the bizarre additions to my text today, like 'extra characters for my stupid tablet'. This touch screen interface often insists on jumping from the line inam typing up into the header of a quote, whenever I begin a word with the letter 'i', and the only fix to so jam a bunch of other characters in before trying again.

[agpjt413]

Feb 19, 2015 8:36:13 GMT -5 crimpgirl said:

Then comes family works for me.

On a personal note my hubby anytime I talk about the possibility of not being able to have a child reminds me we already are a family.

It's inclusive and works for me.

It's like we're married to the same man

[yorkielove83]

((hugs)) to all CFNBC and ALer's who have been hurt by the suggestions and comments.

I'm ok with the name because...
A) It references "family" not pregnancy or children. Whether or not DH and I are ever lucky enough to have children, we are a "family" of 2 (+ 2 fur babies ).
B) It isn't some cliche mommy blog title. "Littles" REALLY?!
C) It references a journey... a story... a path... the future... one that continues with or without children.
D) The subtext for me in "Then comes family", is huge. You all are part of my family. This community is a "family" we encourage, direct, support and care for one another - that's more "family" than a lot of people get IRL.

I'm YorkieLove and I support this message!

[lizblue]

PetSquirrel, I get it and I like it. The fact of the matter is that for the majority of folks in life, the notion of family will include children. But it could be the inclusiveness of this board that may help challenge that assumption and continue to expand the definition of family to make room for the minority, for whom it won't.

And it's just a fact that some people will react the way that EmeraldEyes85 did. It's reality and it's ok.

I will also say that I really don't think anyone's been an asshole on this thread. I'm not the word police, but to me, an asshole is someone who is hurting someone on purpose. Maybe ignorant or unaware of ones' prejudice. But just because you didn't mean it, doesn't mean it doesn't hurt.

This is why I like this board - we have a lot of uncomfortable discussions here. I really think those are the discussions that make the world a better place.

Sappy lizblue out.

[PetSquirrel]

Feb 19, 2015 12:43:55 GMT -5 @wickedcandy said:

Feb 19, 2015 12:33:25 GMT -5 PetSquirrel said:

But, ...stupid tablet... is it assholeness or could it be just being blind to ingrained societal prejudices? 

At this point, I'm calling assholes, one person has been called out before so it doesn't surprise me.

Fair enough.

[therealbug]

Feb 19, 2015 8:27:22 GMT -5 @wickedcandy said:

Feb 19, 2015 7:38:56 GMT -5 mrswheelo said:

I think it can mean all stages of LO's. Whether that is ttc, pregnancy, or raising baby. I think it encompasses all stages as a group. That being said, there could be a better name. I haven't seen it yet though. I don't like snarky anything. That's not who we are, just part of it.

For some reason, this is rubbing me the wrong way...

My guess is because she is saying that it encompasses all stages but then only talks about TTC, pregnancy, and raising baby - which excludes CFNBC, loss, IF, and adoption.

Me thinks someone is missing the point of what the admins want in an all encompassing name . . .

[EmeraldEyes85]

@wickedcandy PetSquirrel lizblue and all the others:

I just want to say I am truly sorry if I inadvertedly offended anyone, and if I am one of the assholes referred to...

I never meant to hurt anyone, and as I said, I struggle with my personal view of family. Maybe because society in general views "starting a family" with having children.

But you are all correct in saying that family goes much wider, and we are already part of a bigger family in may ways, whether it is extended family, friends, or boards like these. We do also have a furbaby (our strange cat) but she seems to have given herself up for adoption, she only comes in to eat in the house, and spends the rest of her time sleeping on our cars. Come winter she'll probably start snuggling again! But yes, I do need to challenge my own view of family.

Again, I am really sorry if my view offended any people, especially the CFNBC'ers. I have long since admired you for hanging around and being so understanding and supportive.

[lizblue]

Feb 20, 2015 0:44:21 GMT -5 EmeraldEyes85 said:

@wickedcandy PetSquirrel lizblue and all the others:

I just want to say I am truly sorry if I inadvertedly offended anyone, and if I am one of the assholes referred to...

I never meant to hurt anyone, and as I said, I struggle with my personal view of family. Maybe because society in general views "starting a family" with having children.

But you are all correct in saying that family goes much wider, and we are already part of a bigger family in may ways, whether it is extended family, friends, or boards like these. We do also have a furbaby (our strange cat) but she seems to have given herself up for adoption, she only comes in to eat in the house, and spends the rest of her time sleeping on our cars. Come winter she'll probably start snuggling aain! But yes, I do need to challenge my own view of family.

Again, I am really sorry if my view offended any people, especially the CFNBC'ers. I have long since admired you for hanging around and being so understanding and supportive.

.

I don't think you're an asshole but I am appreciative of your post and you hearing what I had to say. Hugs.

What I really want to know is where do you live that it's not winter??? TAKE ME THERE.

[EmeraldEyes85]

lizblue I'm from sunny South Africa, where even our winters tend to be mild and sunny

[bethkate]

Feb 20, 2015 9:20:49 GMT -5 theophania said:

Feb 20, 2015 6:48:06 GMT -5 EmeraldEyes85 said:

lizblue I'm from sunny South Africa, where even our winters tend to be mild and sunny

I need to be there now. I'm home from work for my 5th snow day this week and I need out of the house but more snow is coming today.

Seriously! I'm on school vacation this week, but we've had 7 snow days so far this winter, and I've got 4-5 feet of snow outside my door. I need to be somewhere warm and sunny!

[cheetara2]

Feb 18, 2015 21:31:11 GMT -5 renegadewhit said:

heartbot,cheetara2,ldubhawksfan,blackbird,mlal78,aswedishbee,mellymel15,rslh10,4furrypaws,theophania,chimomma19,AmazingTulip,yorkielove83,nikiswimr

There's a new name proposal up. I'm interested to hear what you think.

Sorry, I was MIA yesterday. 

I like it! Much, much better than the Littles.  And judging from the feedback, it doesn't offend or exclude, so I'm all for it. 

[PetSquirrel]

Feb 20, 2015 9:24:39 GMT -5 bethkate said:

Feb 20, 2015 9:20:49 GMT -5 theophania said:

I need to be there now. I'm home from work for my 5th snow day this week and I need out of the house but more snow is coming today.

Seriously! I'm on school vacation this week, but we've had 7 snow days so far this winter, and I've got 4-5 feet of snow outside my door. I need to be somewhere warm and sunny!

I seriously dislike these weird snow years. You guys have all our snow. I kid you not, it has snowed twice this winter, and we have half our front lawn showing. Two winters ago we had... Are you ready for this? Eleven feet of snow fall. This year? About 6 inches. We want a winter wonderland to show off our made-for-snow cedar-sided farm house, but instead, we are aging to have potential buyers tramping in mud and gravel, and seeing just how dirty crappy old snow remnants can look. :/

[PetSquirrel]

Feb 20, 2015 0:44:21 GMT -5 EmeraldEyes85 said:

@wickedcandy PetSquirrel lizblue and all the others:

I just want to say I am truly sorry if I inadvertedly offended anyone, and if I am one of the assholes referred to...

I never meant to hurt anyone, and as I said, I struggle with my personal view of family. Maybe because society in general views "starting a family" with having children.

But you are all correct in saying that family goes much wider, and we are already part of a bigger family in may ways, whether it is extended family, friends, or boards like these. We do also have a furbaby (our strange cat) but she seems to have given herself up for adoption, she only comes in to eat in the house, and spends the rest of her time sleeping on our cars. Come winter she'll probably start snuggling again! But yes, I do need to challenge my own view of family.

Again, I am really sorry if my view offended any people, especially the CFNBC'ers. I have long since admired you for hanging around and being so understanding and supportive.

I appreciate you giving real thought to this, not just for our sakes, but for your own. You are part of a family, you and your spouse. That is a very important point, and one I hope you can own in the future.

I am going to address one more thing, but I want you to first understand that I am not picking on you. You may have been the one to type what I am about to bring up, but it is more coincidental that you brought it up this time, and I am using this as a teaching moment for all our fairly new members.

@wickedcandy is NOT just "hanging around". She is one of the reasons this community exists. Over the years, she helped build it into the strong place of no-bullshit support we all rely on. She nurtured it when cyclical timing left few knowledgable users around, she protected it when we seemed overrun with glitter-farting platitude pushers giving shitty advice. In many ways, this is her community, and we are here because she saw something of such value that even after the TTC part of her own journey ended, she continues to come and nurture ours.

For our newer ladies here (again, not picking on you EE85, this is for everyone who doesn't understand), women like Wicked are not lingering like ghosts, needing our pity. They are the very backbone that our community is built on, and should command our respect.

Also, it's ChildLessNBC, ChildFree gives the connotation that they are just on vacation.

Thus ends this edition of CAL History 101.

[medic7979]

Feb 20, 2015 12:33:58 GMT -5 PetSquirrel said:

Feb 20, 2015 0:44:21 GMT -5 EmeraldEyes85 said:

@wickedcandy PetSquirrel lizblue and all the others:

I just want to say I am truly sorry if I inadvertedly offended anyone, and if I am one of the assholes referred to...

I never meant to hurt anyone, and as I said, I struggle with my personal view of family. Maybe because society in general views "starting a family" with having children.

But you are all correct in saying that family goes much wider, and we are already part of a bigger family in may ways, whether it is extended family, friends, or boards like these. We do also have a furbaby (our strange cat) but she seems to have given herself up for adoption, she only comes in to eat in the house, and spends the rest of her time sleeping on our cars. Come winter she'll probably start snuggling again! But yes, I do need to challenge my own view of family.

Again, I am really sorry if my view offended any people, especially the CFNBC'ers. I have long since admired you for hanging around and being so understanding and supportive.

I appreciate you giving real thought to this, not just for our sakes, but for your own. You are part of a family, you and your spouse. That is a very important point, and one I hope you can own in the future.

I am going to address one more thing, but I want you to first understand that I am not picking on you. You may have been the one to type what I am about to bring up, but it is more coincidental that you brought it up this time, and I am using this as a teaching moment for all our fairly new members.

@wickedcandy is NOT just "hanging around". She is one of the reasons this community exists. Over the years, she helped build it into the strong place of no-bullshit support we all rely on. She nurtured it when cyclical timing left few knowledgable users around, she protected it when we seemed overrun with glitter-farting platitude pushers giving shitty advice. In many ways, this is her community, and we are here because she saw something of such value that even after the TTC part of her own journey ended, she continues to come and nurture ours.

For our newer ladies here (again, not picking on you EE85, this is for everyone who doesn't understand), women like Wicked are not lingering like ghosts, needing our pity. They are the very backbone that our community is built on, and should command our respect.

Also, it's ChildLessNBC, ChildFree gives the connotation that they are just on vacation.

Thus ends this edition of CAL History 101.

Awesome Petra.  Absolutely wonderful.  Agree.