Here's my question. If everyone wants to chat with everyone, why not do that in a general forum, not the one specifically for GKU?
I'm not saying there can't be random threads and such on GKU by any means, but if you are expecting and wanting the ENTIRE community to participate why not have it out of GKU and on a general board (maybe one that needs to be created?). Not everything has to happen on GKU, the BMB's, etc.
Also, I think the people who talked about the crazy train were flamed on TTGP. Because that is the shit like testing at 8 dpo or thinking you are "preggers" because your coffee tastes different at 3dpo.
I'm just confused as to what would be in place of the chat type threads? Would GKU just be a place for drive by questions that may be answered if someone was over here? I feel like there were plenty of chat threads on TD too.
I personally have no issue with tickers or siggies, but I know some folks who do, so I was one of the people to speak up in that Board Culture thread. What I said was very quickly dismissed and very clearly not the majority opinion, so I'd imagine anyone else reading through that thread would have thought it was futile to even bother saying anything.
Siggies can be turned off by the reader, but I think some people felt that was an unfair ask since this is their home board. At least, that's what I gathered.
I read through what you said then, and I thought it was very thoughtful. We have differing opinions (or maybe we don't, so much), and I'm sorry to see anyone feeling like they can't be here or that they were dismissed.
You were one of the folks to respond thoughtfully to what I said and I don't mean to dismiss that, so I'm sorry if it came off that way. I just mean that in the grand scheme of that thread I did voice a differing opinion and it quickly became white noise against a sea of "just hide the tickers if you're having a bad day".
Here's my question. If everyone wants to chat with everyone, why not do that in a general forum, not the one specifically for GKU?
I'm not saying there can't be random threads and such on GKU by any means, but if you are expecting and wanting the ENTIRE community to participate why not have it out of GKU and on a general board (maybe one that needs to be created?). Not everything has to happen on GKU, the BMB's, etc.
Also, I think the people who talked about the crazy train were flamed on TTGP. Because that is the shit like testing at 8 dpo or thinking you are "preggers" because your coffee tastes different at 3dpo.
What do you think would be left on GKU if we send the chat and randoms elsewhere? Since we don't have a huge influx of new people yet, there wouldn't be hardly anything GKU-related on the board. Also, this is my home board, why should I go somewhere else to chat with those I've come to know here?
If you read what I made purple, I didn't say you had to. But if it is a post that is intended to be for EVERYONE on TCF, then why only post it in GKU?
There were questions about why people weren't posting as much. I was providing an answer and a possible solution. Don't like it, fine.
This is exactly what happened on the board culture thread. The people who had differing opinions were completely shot down and pushed out of the conversation.
What do you think would be left on GKU if we send the chat and randoms elsewhere? Since we don't have a huge influx of new people yet, there wouldn't be hardly anything GKU-related on the board. Also, this is my home board, why should I go somewhere else to chat with those I've come to know here?
If you read what I made purple, I didn't say you had to. But if it is a post that is intended to be for EVERYONE on TCF, then why only post it in GKU?
There were questions about why people weren't posting as much. I was providing an answer and a possible solution. Don't like it, fine.
This is exactly what happened on the board culture thread. The people who had differing opinions were completely shot down and pushed out of the conversation.
I think your suggestion was a valid one. The logistics of it might be tough though. I'm just thinking of the all-board drinking or FFFC threads that went down that were already 40+ pages by the time those of us on the West Coast woke up. A chit-chat or randoms thread might have the same issue, making it a little intimidating for new people to jump into.
I feel like there has to be a way to make both sides of this happy. I'm just not seeing it.
Here's my question. If everyone wants to chat with everyone, why not do that in a general forum, not the one specifically for GKU?
I'm not saying there can't be random threads and such on GKU by any means, but if you are expecting and wanting the ENTIRE community to participate why not have it out of GKU and on a general board (maybe one that needs to be created?). Not everything has to happen on GKU, the BMB's, etc.
Also, I think the people who talked about the crazy train were flamed on TTGP. Because that is the shit like testing at 8 dpo or thinking you are "preggers" because your coffee tastes different at 3dpo.
What do you think would be left on GKU if we send the chat and randoms elsewhere? Since we don't have a huge influx of new people yet, there would be hardly anything GKU-related on the board. Also, this is my home board, why should I go somewhere else to chat with those I've come to know here?
Exactly. Go look at the main board now. If you got rid of all the threads that aren't specifically GKU-related, how many threads would be left?
I like chat threads on GKU because right now, I'm trying to get pregnant, so GKU is where I go. I might be chatting about random stuff some of the time, but like that I'm doing that with the other women who are trying to get pregnant. I'm getting to know those women, and part of what's nice about that is that when I have a GKU-related problem or concern, I know the women I'm seeking advice from personally. That's how a supportive community is built.
What do you think would be left on GKU if we send the chat and randoms elsewhere? Since we don't have a huge influx of new people yet, there wouldn't be hardly anything GKU-related on the board. Also, this is my home board, why should I go somewhere else to chat with those I've come to know here?
If you read what I made purple, I didn't say you had to. But if it is a post that is intended to be for EVERYONE on TCF, then why only post it in GKU?
There were questions about why people weren't posting as much. I was providing an answer and a possible solution. Don't like it, fine.
This is exactly what happened on the board culture thread. The people who had differing opinions were completely shot down and pushed out of the conversation.
I agree with what you said about "people who had differing opinions...etc"
I find there are some people with very strong opinions that do not let anyone else speak their mind. I have been turned off by this bc it's like the only opinion that should matter are specific ppl on the board, and then everyone else is afraid to speak up.
We keep comparing this board to TD or trying to be one way or the other. Fuck TD and any other board. I love the community here, I love the friendships that have been built and the information given has been so helpful to me and others. If people don't like pee sticks, don't post them or do spoilers. We can go back and forth about what works or doesn't work for the boards but that board culture was huge! I'm sure not everyone had the chance to read it. As I've said before, make up some polls, see where the majority lean for certain things and go from there. We can't please everyone and if there are people who are afraid to speak up, then the polls will give them a bit of a voice.
What do you think would be left on GKU if we send the chat and randoms elsewhere? Since we don't have a huge influx of new people yet, there would be hardly anything GKU-related on the board. Also, this is my home board, why should I go somewhere else to chat with those I've come to know here?
Exactly. Go look at the main board now. If you got rid of all the threads that aren't specifically GKU-related, how many threads would be left?
I like chat threads on GKU because right now, I'm trying to get pregnant, so GKU is where I go. I might be chatting about random stuff some of the time, but like that I'm doing that with the other women who are trying to get pregnant. I'm getting to know those women, and part of what's nice about that is that when I have a GKU-related problem or concern, I know the women I'm seeking advice from personally. That's how a supportive community is built.
Which is great. Because GKU is WHERE YOU GO. But what is happening, is people are feeling pushed out by the other posters who may not "go here".
Have all the random threads you want. But don't expect everyone to be happy that they're being pushed out of their home by visitors.
I read through what you said then, and I thought it was very thoughtful. We have differing opinions (or maybe we don't, so much), and I'm sorry to see anyone feeling like they can't be here or that they were dismissed.
You were one of the folks to respond thoughtfully to what I said and I don't mean to dismiss that, so I'm sorry if it came off that way. I just mean that in the grand scheme of that thread I did voice a differing opinion and it quickly became white noise against a sea of "just hide the tickers if you're having a bad day".
Ok. I was just worried I came off dismissively, because I was pretty vocal. I do feel badly that anyone feels marginalized or less than welcome. I don't know what the answer to that is.
I personally have no issue with tickers or siggies, but I know some folks who do, so I was one of the people to speak up in that Board Culture thread. What I said was very quickly dismissed and very clearly not the majority opinion, so I'd imagine anyone else reading through that thread would have thought it was futile to even bother saying anything.
Siggies can be turned off by the reader, but I think some people felt that was an unfair ask since this is their home board. At least, that's what I gathered.
You are who I was thinking about when I was typing. You did say something about the tickers.
RE the bolded: GKU is not TTTC. It has never pretended to be. I don't understand why we have to act like it is. So, as a compromise, hiding siggies was offered. And I think it's a damn good compromise.
Exactly. Go look at the main board now. If you got rid of all the threads that aren't specifically GKU-related, how many threads would be left?
I like chat threads on GKU because right now, I'm trying to get pregnant, so GKU is where I go. I might be chatting about random stuff some of the time, but like that I'm doing that with the other women who are trying to get pregnant. I'm getting to know those women, and part of what's nice about that is that when I have a GKU-related problem or concern, I know the women I'm seeking advice from personally. That's how a supportive community is built.
Which is great. Because GKU is WHERE YOU GO. But what is happening, is people are feeling pushed out by the other posters who may not "go here".
Have all the random threads you want. But don't expect everyone to be happy that they're being pushed out of their home by visitors.
I'm confused by who you mean here? Do you mean those who aren't actively TTC are being pushed out? Or those from other boards just hanging around? Please to elaborate.
I agree completely. I was surprised to hear that people were actually leaving the board and/or posting less because of something that I didn't even really realize was an issue. Honestly, I think we're sometimes intimidating (collectively, as a group) in a way that makes it hard for people to speak up, especially if the opinion they're voicing isn't a popular one. If that's causing us to lose members, that's a sad thing. I feel blindsided, too. And honestly sort of disappointed at some of what went down in this thread today - but I realize I need to just let it go.
I feel like what "went down here" was that people noticed something and that it may be becoming a trend, and they decided to comment. I don't think the intention was to single out and personally flame one poster, and she took the whole thing gracefully and carried on about her day. I'm not trying to be argumentative, and I don't think you were either (earlier or now), I just think this is something that needed to come up and maybe get hashed out a little more.
I've noticed certain posters weren't around and while I know people may have personal stuff going on too, I couldn't help but wonder if there was more to it. I'm glad it's being addressed, to be honest. In the TWW or otherwise.
I totally agree with all of that. The reason I was disappointed was honestly that I felt like her feelings were totally disregarded (and sort of trampled on, honestly) in the process of everyone reacting to what is undeniably a sore subject here. People mentioned that there have been several pictures of tests posted recently. I didn't see them, but if that's the case, I feel like it should have been brought up in a way that didn't single anyone out. She obviously had no idea that she was being insensitive, but in the process of reacting to it, plenty of people were insensitive to her. And yeah, she was totally graceful about it, and let it go, and I should probably do the same. I don't even know why I had such a reaction to it - probably because I was in an identical situation not so long ago. Anyway, I definitely didn't mean to be argumentative, either, and I'm shutting up about it now!
*TWW Monday*Mar 30, 2015 18:26:02 GMT -5via mobile
Post by Sparkly on Mar 30, 2015 18:26:02 GMT -5
Correct if wrong but I think what @debthelibrarian is getting at is WHO participates in said random/chit chat/GTKY threads and how often.
I don't mind pregnants stopping by to say hi, give advice and share knowledge if they were here awhile, grad check in, congratulating people, etc. I'm not trying to be board police or anything, but I do think once/when you are KU, you shift a little. Not never ever come here, but maybe chat and GTKY a little more with your BMB? It's GREAT to still see them around and do not get me wrong, I am glad you're not banished the moment you get a BFP, but I still think it's important to respect what this board is about (TTC) and that many here may be struggling with that on any given day.
I feel like what "went down here" was that people noticed something and that it may be becoming a trend, and they decided to comment. I don't think the intention was to single out and personally flame one poster, and she took the whole thing gracefully and carried on about her day. I'm not trying to be argumentative, and I don't think you were either (earlier or now), I just think this is something that needed to come up and maybe get hashed out a little more.
I've noticed certain posters weren't around and while I know people may have personal stuff going on too, I couldn't help but wonder if there was more to it. I'm glad it's being addressed, to be honest. In the TWW or otherwise.
I totally agree with all of that. The reason I was disappointed was honestly that I felt like her feelings were totally disregarded (and sort of trampled on, honestly) in the process of everyone reacting to what is undeniably a sore subject here. People mentioned that there have been several pictures of tests posted recently. I didn't see them, but if that's the case, I feel like it should have been brought up in a way that didn't single anyone out. She obviously had no idea that she was being insensitive, but in the process of reacting to it, plenty of people were insensitive to her. And yeah, she was totally graceful about it, and let it go, and I should probably do the same. I don't even know why I had such a reaction to it - probably because I was in an identical situation not so long ago. Anyway, I definitely didn't mean to be argumentative, either, and I'm shutting up about it now!
I think we're on the same page I totally agree she kind of got thrown under the bus and that isn't fair. It wasn't my intention - hell, I even shared my two cents re: the picture earlier in the thread! There are days it would bother me more, or coming from other people (like, ones I don't know/are brand new), so that is why I agreed with PPs who want this to not become the "norm" around here. If that makes sense.
Exactly. Go look at the main board now. If you got rid of all the threads that aren't specifically GKU-related, how many threads would be left?
I like chat threads on GKU because right now, I'm trying to get pregnant, so GKU is where I go. I might be chatting about random stuff some of the time, but like that I'm doing that with the other women who are trying to get pregnant. I'm getting to know those women, and part of what's nice about that is that when I have a GKU-related problem or concern, I know the women I'm seeking advice from personally. That's how a supportive community is built.
Which is great. Because GKU is WHERE YOU GO. But what is happening, is people are feeling pushed out by the other posters who may not "go here".
Have all the random threads you want. But don't expect everyone to be happy that they're being pushed out of their home by visitors.
Huh?
How is anyone being pushed out? And what do random threads have to do with it? Anyone is welcome in those. There was recently a conversation where the general consensus was that women who get pregnant don't need to feel banished from GKU. And we have plenty of women here who are TTA. I'm confused as to who exactly you think is unwelcome here.
Post by anonymouseliza on Mar 30, 2015 18:33:04 GMT -5
I really don't get that. I just don't. I'm trying, but I'm drawing a blank. There are good posters who can contribute in good ways and they are not supposed to come back b/c they are pregnant or no longer ttc?
I really don't get that. I just don't. I'm trying, but I'm drawing a blank. There are good posters who can contribute in good ways and they are not supposed to come back b/c they are pregnant or no longer ttc?
I don't think that's what's being said. It's certainly not what I was saying.
Correct if wrong but I think what @debthelibrarian is getting at is WHO participates in said random/chit chat/GTKY threads and how often.
I don't mind pregnants stopping by to say hi, give advice and share knowledge if they were here awhile, grad check in, congratulating people, etc. I'm not trying to be board police or anything, but I do think once/when you are KU, you shift a little. Not never ever come here, but maybe chat and GTKY a little more with your BMB? It's GREAT to still see them around and do not get me wrong, I am glad you're not banished the moment you get a BFP, but I still think it's important to respect what this board is about (TTC) and that many here may be struggling with that on any given day.
I agree, but as far as the bolded is concerned, I'm confused - it's not like we have pregnant women hanging around here, rambling on about their pregnancies. (Unless we do, and I've managed to miss that, too.) Don't they generally just pop up sometimes in the random threads?
Which is great. Because GKU is WHERE YOU GO. But what is happening, is people are feeling pushed out by the other posters who may not "go here".
Have all the random threads you want. But don't expect everyone to be happy that they're being pushed out of their home by visitors.
Huh?
How is anyone being pushed out? And what do random threads have to do with it? Anyone is welcome in those. There was recently a conversation where the general consensus was that women who get pregnant don't need to feel banished from GKU. And we have plenty of women here who are TTA. I'm confused as to who exactly you think is unwelcome here.
Agreed.
I'm not trying to invalidate anyone's feelings - I just don't see that many of the grads posting in threads. And of those that do, it seems like most are hiding their tickers and such. I want to understand, because I feel like if it becomes clear, we can come up with a solution.
And like you said, there's a bunch of TTA women here. There's even the WTDS thread.
Correct if wrong but I think what @debthelibrarian is getting at is WHO participates in said random/chit chat/GTKY threads and how often.
I don't mind pregnants stopping by to say hi, give advice and share knowledge if they were here awhile, grad check in, congratulating people, etc. I'm not trying to be board police or anything, but I do think once/when you are KU, you shift a little. Not never ever come here, but maybe chat and GTKY a little more with your BMB? It's GREAT to still see them around and do not get me wrong, I am glad you're not banished the moment you get a BFP, but I still think it's important to respect what this board is about (TTC) and that many here may be struggling with that on any given day.
This is how I feel too. As a pregnant, I lurk TWW, any BFPs, and any threads where I think I can answer a question. I've been staying out of GTKY, chats, and things like UO and FFFC. I know I don't really "go here" anymore.
Correct if wrong but I think what @debthelibrarian is getting at is WHO participates in said random/chit chat/GTKY threads and how often.
I don't mind pregnants stopping by to say hi, give advice and share knowledge if they were here awhile, grad check in, congratulating people, etc. I'm not trying to be board police or anything, but I do think once/when you are KU, you shift a little. Not never ever come here, but maybe chat and GTKY a little more with your BMB? It's GREAT to still see them around and do not get me wrong, I am glad you're not banished the moment you get a BFP, but I still think it's important to respect what this board is about (TTC) and that many here may be struggling with that on any given day.
But this is a board where the majority will get pregnant in due time. This isn't TTTC. I'm not trying to downplay the feelings of people who may be having hard days at all, but there are protected zones on this very website for those feelings. I don't think GKU should become like that.
I am in 3T. I'm in it. I'm there. Do I have days where I don't want to see things? Yes. Do I have days where I think about leaving this board and stepping down as mod because I'm so frustrated at my body? YES. But, I would never dream of asking this board to be something that it's not.
I think I fundamentally disagree with some people about what this board truly is. To me, it's educational, it's light, it's meant for people who have knowledge about trying to get pregnant. Certain decencies are followed (which was being debated in this thread initially), but I guess I don't think that the blanket of etiquette needs to include banishing those TTA, pregnant, benched, or otherwise unable to get pregnant.
Maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. Like I said, I'm very surprised by the turn of this thread.
I really don't get that. I just don't. I'm trying, but I'm drawing a blank. There are good posters who can contribute in good ways and they are not supposed to come back b/c they are pregnant or no longer ttc?
I don't think that's what's being said. It's certainly not what I was saying.
I thinks that's partially what's being said. That the posters who are pregnant shouldn't post unless their pregnancy tickers are hidden. That because a couple posters feel like it's an invasion to a board that they belong to since they are not pregnant, they would rather stop being apart of this community than deal with the tickers. It sucks and I just don't see how this could be remedied without anyone feeling left out.
I really don't get that. I just don't. I'm trying, but I'm drawing a blank. There are good posters who can contribute in good ways and they are not supposed to come back b/c they are pregnant or no longer ttc?
I don't think that's what's being said. It's certainly not what I was saying.
Correct if wrong but I think what @debthelibrarian is getting at is WHO participates in said random/chit chat/GTKY threads and how often.
I don't mind pregnants stopping by to say hi, give advice and share knowledge if they were here awhile, grad check in, congratulating people, etc. I'm not trying to be board police or anything, but I do think once/when you are KU, you shift a little. Not never ever come here, but maybe chat and GTKY a little more with your BMB? It's GREAT to still see them around and do not get me wrong, I am glad you're not banished the moment you get a BFP, but I still think it's important to respect what this board is about (TTC) and that many here may be struggling with that on any given day.
But this is a board where the majority will get pregnant in due time. This isn't TTTC. I'm not trying to downplay the feelings of people who may be having hard days at all, but there are protected zones on this very website for those feelings. I don't think GKU should become like that.
I am in 3T. I'm in it. I'm there. Do I have days where I don't want to see things? Yes. Do I have days where I think about leaving this board and stepping down as mod because I'm so frustrated at my body? YES. But, I would never dream of asking this board to be something that it's not.
I think I fundamentally disagree with some people about what this board truly is. To me, it's educational, it's light, it's meant for people who have knowledge about trying to get pregnant. Certain decencies are followed (which was being debated in this thread initially), but I guess I don't think that the blanket of etiquette needs to include banishing those TTA, pregnant, benched, or otherwise unable to get pregnant.
Maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. Like I said, I'm very surprised by the turn of this thread.
No, I agree with everything you're saying, and especially to the bolded. I'm probably speaking more on behalf of others than myself here, because I have a kid, I hang out on Parenting where there are pregnants, and in general none of this really bothers me personally (most days), I just know it bothers others and I hate that.
Honestly all I was really trying to get at is that I think some would prefer people chat and get-to-know where they "go" (it feels icky even putting it that way but I don't know how else to say it). When you've been here a couple/few months and you get a BFP, I don't think this is your home board anymore. This is different than benched, TTA, or been here on and off over a couple or a few YEARS, IMO.
Maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. I should just go back to the drinking thread. I'm better there.
You said there were good posters who can contribute in good ways. In my original statement I said they should (preg or not) share knowledge and advice if they have it. I never said banish them. In fact, I think I specifically said not to.
EEEEEp. cnf2013, your pregnancy ticker is so ca-uuuuuute.
Cycle/Month 17
CD 25 / 3 DPO
Timing: -2, -1, O
Testing plans: Eh, probably 4/10. I'd like to wait, but we're going to visit H's parents that weekend, and I guess I'd like to know whether or not we'll have news / whether or not I should drink at the baseball game.
RRCS: I was really hoping to get one more romp in yesterday, at +2, but we just didn't get to it. *shrug*
GTKY: I haaaaaaate folding laundry, but I don't mind to vacuum.
If I make it over here after another high T tomorrow, 4/10 is also about when I would take mine too! I swear we are syncing
Correct if wrong but I think what @debthelibrarian is getting at is WHO participates in said random/chit chat/GTKY threads and how often.
I don't mind pregnants stopping by to say hi, give advice and share knowledge if they were here awhile, grad check in, congratulating people, etc. I'm not trying to be board police or anything, but I do think once/when you are KU, you shift a little. Not never ever come here, but maybe chat and GTKY a little more with your BMB? It's GREAT to still see them around and do not get me wrong, I am glad you're not banished the moment you get a BFP, but I still think it's important to respect what this board is about (TTC) and that many here may be struggling with that on any given day.
But this is a board where the majority will get pregnant in due time. This isn't TTTC. I'm not trying to downplay the feelings of people who may be having hard days at all, but there are protected zones on this very website for those feelings. I don't think GKU should become like that.
I am in 3T. I'm in it. I'm there. Do I have days where I don't want to see things? Yes. Do I have days where I think about leaving this board and stepping down as mod because I'm so frustrated at my body? YES. But, I would never dream of asking this board to be something that it's not.
I think I fundamentally disagree with some people about what this board truly is. To me, it's educational, it's light, it's meant for people who have knowledge about trying to get pregnant. Certain decencies are followed (which was being debated in this thread initially), but I guess I don't think that the blanket of etiquette needs to include banishing those TTA, pregnant, benched, or otherwise unable to get pregnant.
Maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. Like I said, I'm very surprised by the turn of this thread.
I dunno. There's a period of limbo where TTC starts getting hard, but you aren't TTTC yet. Tickers have never bothered me, but toward the end, I did stop checking out BFPs and the grad threads on hard days. So I do get how seeing tickers around here could be rough for some people, but because they aren't in 3T; this is their safe place.
But again, my question is, is it just tickers? Is it any mention of pregnancy in sigs? Where is the line?
But this is a board where the majority will get pregnant in due time. This isn't TTTC. I'm not trying to downplay the feelings of people who may be having hard days at all, but there are protected zones on this very website for those feelings. I don't think GKU should become like that.
I am in 3T. I'm in it. I'm there. Do I have days where I don't want to see things? Yes. Do I have days where I think about leaving this board and stepping down as mod because I'm so frustrated at my body? YES. But, I would never dream of asking this board to be something that it's not.
I think I fundamentally disagree with some people about what this board truly is. To me, it's educational, it's light, it's meant for people who have knowledge about trying to get pregnant. Certain decencies are followed (which was being debated in this thread initially), but I guess I don't think that the blanket of etiquette needs to include banishing those TTA, pregnant, benched, or otherwise unable to get pregnant.
Maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. Like I said, I'm very surprised by the turn of this thread.
I dunno. There's a period of limbo where TTC starts getting hard, but you aren't TTTC yet. Tickers have never bothered me, but toward the end, I did stop checking out BFPs and the grad threads on hard days. So I do get how seeing tickers around here could be rough for some people, but because they aren't in 3T; this is their safe place.
But again, my question is, is it just tickers? Is it any mention of pregnancy in sigs? Where is the line?
Sure, there are hard things for everyone. But that point is different for everyone. I have a crazy hard time with all the posts this year about parents enrolling their kids in kindergarten because my son should be that age. So I've turned them off and ignored them - I can't go and ask everyone not to post about that, y'know?
Perhaps what is really happening is that there needs to be a ttc 6+ board. I don't know. If there were no option here for anyone to disable sigs or avatars, then I would agree that a really in-depth conversation might be necessary. But while that option exists, I don't understand why that is not a valid option or is pushing people away. I really just don't.
Then Comes Family, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising
program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.