Each of these characters could've made the choice to become like any of the other characters, yet they didn't. Had Harry allowed that hat to put him into Slytherin, I don't think Dumbledore would've shown him as much interest.He would've been classed as dark and he would've been the next Voldemort.
This would have been an interesting series as well. Someone go write it.
Post by GoBigOrGoGnome on Jun 5, 2015 18:13:08 GMT -5
I'm with anonymouseliza on a lot of this stuff. I LOVE the whole HP series and was mildly obsessed back in the day, but I do think we have to remember they started as YA series. I think we, as readers, often try to find grand themes and subplots in books we love because they mean something to us, but I don't always think they were really intended to be there. Sometimes, a good story is just a good fucking story.
I read the first and second book. They were good but couldn't get into it.
They are the worst of the series. It really starts to mature, the subject matter gets darker, the kids get older, and JKR's writing gets more nuanced and taut starting in book 3.
Yeah I think I made that observation when I saw the 3rd and 4th movie. I was like WOW this got dark. But I am sure there is a lot in the book I missed from the movie.
I'd rather discuss whether you find Snape's love of Lily something that is sweet, to be admired and envied or obsessive and self-centered. That's always a good debate.
I think it became obsessive and self centered but Snape also was never really shown love by anyone before. I think in the end he felt extremely guilty and I will never not bawl my eyes out in his memory scene in the final movie.
Ok, I love the movie scene. And I get sniffly at "Always" too.
But it wasn't a huge Snape redemption moment for me. It gave enormous depth and a layer of tragedy to his character, but I also have always felt his love was self-centered and obsessive. He hated Harry because he was James' son . . . and because he blamed Harry for Lily's death, because she died protecting him when she could have lived (with/for him). And per JKR, the reason he was always so hideous and nasty to Neville was because he was the other boy mentioned in the prophecy - he could have been the Boy Who Lived and Lily would be alive.
He was a twisted, nasty, bitter person. He wasn't ONLY that though - that's what the love was about for me. It wasn't redemption. He wasn't suddenly a good guy all along. But he was more than just that evil git. He was much more noble than just that.
Each of these characters could've made the choice to become like any of the other characters, yet they didn't. Had Harry allowed that hat to put him into Slytherin, I don't think Dumbledore would've shown him as much interest.He would've been classed as dark and he would've been the next Voldemort.
This would have been an interesting series as well. Someone go write it.
I assure you that the fanfiction archives are filled with it, if you get bored.
I think that while Dumbledore made lots of mistakes throughout the series (such as cutting Harry out in book 5? to try and keep V from realizing Harry's connection to him) I don't think he was intentionally abusive. I think he did what a lot of adults do, they choose for the children and try to protect them rather than involve them in the problem. My biggest issue with D is him not telling Harry about the horcrux once he knew and allowing him to sacrifice himself not knowing it wouldn't really kill him.
But that's the thing. If Harry had known it wouldn't really kill him, it wouldn't have been a sacrifice, and thus it wouldn't have worked.
But I believe McGonagall did say that they had it taken care of. (Btw how is a series of trials better than just keeping the thing under guard 24/7?) And if an 11 year old who has never had any experience with magic before came to me and was like "hey I know you've been preparing for Voldemort's return for years but I think Snape's a traitor and trying to steal this magic relic I'm not supposed to know about" I'd brush him off too. Everyone knew Umbridge was a bitch but they couldn't kick her out because she had the ministry behind her. Harry had reliable adults in his life though: the Weasleys, Lupin, Sirius, the Order. And again, I think the adults did what normal adults do, they make decisions for the children in their lives. I don't think many adults would consult a 16 year old or younger on matters of war.
No one except certain people were going to get the stone from the mirror. The tests/trials/traps were gotten through by three FIRST YEAR STUDENTS. They were only intended to slow people down until Dumbledore arrived to deal with the thief.
Funny note on that - he's detained in London, because we haven't yet been introduced to the floo network or apparition. It's funny to re-read some of the earlier books with later information. Dumbledore could have been back quite quickly, but in the book, he just gets a bad feeling.
I mean . . . you have to keep in mind at some point that it is YA and on a developmental arc. Otherwise, Philospher's Stone will eat away at your brain.
You can't apparate on Hogwarts grounds; haven't you ever read Hogwarts, a History?
They are the worst of the series. It really starts to mature, the subject matter gets darker, the kids get older, and JKR's writing gets more nuanced and taut starting in book 3.
Yeah I think I made that observation when I saw the 3rd and 4th movie. I was like WOW this got dark. But I am sure there is a lot in the book I missed from the movie.
Having said that though, I have a soft spot in my heart for both the first and second books and movies. Though I nearly always skip book/movie 2 if I'm marathoning in a time crunch.
But there is something about the first view of Diagon Alley or Hogwarts or the sorting that just . . . aw. We're home again!
No one except certain people were going to get the stone from the mirror. The tests/trials/traps were gotten through by three FIRST YEAR STUDENTS. They were only intended to slow people down until Dumbledore arrived to deal with the thief.
Funny note on that - he's detained in London, because we haven't yet been introduced to the floo network or apparition. It's funny to re-read some of the earlier books with later information. Dumbledore could have been back quite quickly, but in the book, he just gets a bad feeling.
I mean . . . you have to keep in mind at some point that it is YA and on a developmental arc. Otherwise, Philospher's Stone will eat away at your brain.
You can't apparate on Hogwarts grounds; haven't you ever read Hogwarts, a History?
LOL, yeah, but you can apparate to the gate. Or to Hogsmeade and take the floo or a broom on up to ol' Hoggy-Warty Hogwarts.
No judgement zone? Good, then y'all can't judge the fact that I live in Orlando & have never been to WWHP.
WHAT?! Stop. No. I cannot believe this.
MH asked me where I wanted to go for our next vacation. The only thing was we had to stay in the continental US. I didn't even hesitate; I yelled HARRY POTTER WORLD.
When we go, I'm driving by and picking you up. This is unacceptable in our friendship.
Post by anonymouseliza on Jun 5, 2015 18:23:51 GMT -5
Pottermore put me in Ravenclaw and Hufflepuff. I usually test into Ravenclaw.
I'm unsurprised but don't know what I think about it. I think there is an interesting theory that House sorting is really about what you wish for yourself rather than your perceived traits or strengths. For the Gryffindors there is always a case to made for having to ask (Ron, Hermione and Harry all wish to be in Gryffindor, and Neville couldn't really be described as brave in his early years, could he?).
But yeah, I'm a stuck-up smarty-pants. Or super-friendly hard-worker, depending on the day.
Super serious question for everyone... What house are you in? Pottermore verified or best guess?
Pottermore put me in Slytherin. I was pissed at first, but I've come to embrace it. Also, we are always winning at House Points to overcompensate for our flaws.
For me, the Weasley twins. Followed by Hermione. Followed by Hermione with a Weasley twin, but I just ventured into fanfiction again, didn't I?
I get sorted into Ravenclaw and Dobby is probably my favorite. I have a t shirt I wear to bed where he looks like this: and it's adorable. I also really like Hagrid and Lupin.
For me, the Weasley twins. Followed by Hermione. Followed by Hermione with a Weasley twin, but I just ventured into fanfiction again, didn't I?
Hermione and Ginny were always favorites of mine. But not movie Ginny. She was lame. I keep trying to talk my H into naming the baby Hermione if it's a girl. ETA: Also Neville. I always related to Neville. I'm never one of the cool kids either.
I think that while Dumbledore made lots of mistakes throughout the series (such as cutting Harry out in book 5? to try and keep V from realizing Harry's connection to him) I don't think he was intentionally abusive. I think he did what a lot of adults do, they choose for the children and try to protect them rather than involve them in the problem. My biggest issue with D is him not telling Harry about the horcrux once he knew and allowing him to sacrifice himself not knowing it wouldn't really kill him.
This is what made me read the series over, I understand reading with a bias and I won't argue that I have a serious bias against Dumbledore. he had Harry ready to be the sacrificial lamb and I think that requires prep work.
For me it started long before Hogwarts, had Harry been raised in a Magical home he would not have been so enchanted by magic, he would have had a family to call his own and not have been so needy for any scraps of affection shown to him. It benefited the entire wizarding world for Harry to be neglected.
Harry's experience in the muggle world was less than exemplary and he would've done anything to stay in the Wizarding world because it was still better than his experience in the muggle world.
He would also had been less willing to sacrifice himself for a world who turned their back on him every other chapter.
Woah. This is VERY different than what you answered to my questions. This is active abuse on Dumbledore's part.
It - also - is an interesting theory.
anonymouseliza - I'm not taking any theories as true or untrue. I just like seeing how different people interpret the same words.
I've said it before, but I loathe the Snape pay off story. Loathe it. I found it weak and completely unvelievable. I actually cringe at the "always" scene. I imagine Dumbledore rolling his eyes.
This is what made me read the series over, I understand reading with a bias and I won't argue that I have a serious bias against Dumbledore. he had Harry ready to be the sacrificial lamb and I think that requires prep work.
For me it started long before Hogwarts, had Harry been raised in a Magical home he would not have been so enchanted by magic, he would have had a family to call his own and not have been so needy for any scraps of affection shown to him. It benefited the entire wizarding world for Harry to be neglected.
Harry's experience in the muggle world was less than exemplary and he would've done anything to stay in the Wizarding world because it was still better than his experience in the muggle world.
He would also had been less willing to sacrifice himself for a world who turned their back on him every other chapter.
Woah. This is VERY different than what you answered to my questions. This is active abuse on Dumbledore's part.
It - also - is an interesting theory.
anonymouseliza - I'm not taking any theories as true or untrue. I just like seeing how different people interpret the same words.
Yeah, Dumbledore kinda sucked in a lot of ways. He admits to not being perfect, but it was really interesting to read in book 7 all the specifics. It was kinda rough to have him yanked off the pedestal so thoroughly.
And yet, despite all that Dumbledore did to Harry before Harry even met him, Harry idolizes the fuck out of Dumbledore. I honestly think that Harry was too naive to realize just how fucked up Dumbledore was. Harry liked to believe in the good.
But for argument's sake- Dumbledore allowed one child to be abused to save many lives. Was he a monster, or just doing the best he could to save the Wizarding world? Does Harry understand that by the end? Does Harry forgive Dumbledore for the abuse?
I've said it before, but I loathe the Snape pay off story. Loathe it. I found it weak and completely unvelievable. I actually cringe at the "always" scene. I imagine Dumbledore rolling his eyes.
For my preteen self this was an amazing story. So many squees.
I've said it before, but I loathe the Snape pay off story. Loathe it. I found it weak and completely unvelievable. I actually cringe at the "always" scene. I imagine Dumbledore rolling his eyes.
For my preteen self this was an amazing story. So many squees.
Post by housecarder on Jun 5, 2015 18:54:24 GMT -5
I'm Ravenclaw/Hufflepuff too. My favorite would probably be Hermione, Tonks, or Luna. We have so many names we want to use for kids. I had to veto Bellatrix though, DNW my daughter named after a murderous witch that was obsessed with a Dark Lord. Eta: My kids and I watch this at least once a week... youtu.be/zbdvogFyZZM
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