Poor sleeper: naps, crib, everywhere

[FlutterOfYoshis]

Whether you have advice or can only offer some kind words, I'm at my wits end and could use some support. If you read all this, you deserve a cookie!

DD has been a struggle sleep-wise. Early on, she wiggled her way out of every swaddle, so we figured she'd be happier out of it. Then she learned to depend on the pacifier to go to sleep but would play the pacifier game for hours without falling asleep fully. We had a brief respite when she slept in her swing, but now that we weaned her from the movement, she's back to her poor habits. She's still sleeping in her rnp in our room since she's up so often (lately it's been every 1-2 hours and has only ever successfully napped in her crib once. Speaking of naps, we can spend a full hour in her room, and IF she drifts off she stays asleep for only 4-40 minutes.

Our routine for naps is in her room, white noise, rocking to classical music, set in crib then rnp when that doesn't work, with pacifier. Our routine for bedtime is our bedroom, pjs, white noise, nurse, set in rnp with pacifier and classical music til asleep. We're planning to do sleep sense in 2 weekends when there won't be interruptions of events and visitors, but I'm really trying to stick to good habits before we get there, which means, no more sleeping on me when all else fails like we used to do.

Am I doing something terribly wrong? I feel like this sleep deprivation is killing me and it breaks my heart every time DD rubs her eyes because I know she just won't get enough rest every time we try.

ETA: Despite it all, she is overall a happy baby, so the smiles do help at least!

[mmarie]

No advice but all the hugs and support.

[aggiebug]

You are doing nothing wrong babies are hard and some are harder than others!

I have no great advice but sometimes I try and focus on "this too, shall pass" I may have chanted that louder than DD's screams once or twice, because it was all I could do.

[cougarette]

I also don't have any advice since I'd be doing what you're doing too. Hopefully the sleep sense helps! Can your H or one of your house guests take over so you can rest?

[agm04]

Oh boy do I feel for you. We had some insane nap fighting going on at our house for WEEKS. I'm certainly no expert, but what helped us was getting her caught up on sleep by whatever means necessary for a couple days. Then we were very consistent with routine and napping in her crib - sometimes fighting her for the full hour before stopping (horrible). The Merlin magic sleep suit seems to be really helpful for her. She still only gets one sleep cycle for a lot of naps, but she goes to sleep so much better on her own. The last week or so has been hard - still so much better for the most part, but some fighting and some waking after one sleep cycle at bed time. Like I said, no expert here! The suit saved our lives though. Ours hated the swaddle too.

Mostly I just know how you feel and want to say you're not doing anything wrong and you're not alone! Like aggiebug said, some babies are just harder. I know mine is!

[lilyelayne]

Hugs. I don't think you're doing anything wrong, but it may be time for some sleep training. No experience there, but good luck!

Can you try starting nap routine earlier & adding an activity, like massage or reading a calm book? Something to signal hey it's about to be sleep time, but not go to sleep this instant or something she can sleep through.

[junebugjam]

I feel for you. My baby was an awful sleeper. I would start sleep sense as soon as possible. It was a lifesaver for us and 2 weekends is REALLY far away when you're not getting any sleep. It's worth it to start now and your visitors will just have to deal with it.

I'm so sorry you're struggling with this but you are not doing anything wrong. Some babies are just bad sleepers unfortunately but sleep training really did wonders for my baby and he sounds very similar to yours. Feel free to ask questions if you have any.

[dacora]

mumomma13 DD is the exact same way, wonderful at night but a crankster during the day. I'm curious to see what people have to say about naps as well.

[junebugjam]

Jul 2, 2015 12:49:32 GMT -5 mumomma13 said:

No advice here. I have a crappy napper, but he goes down easily at night, and I do nothing different. I do have a question for anyone with more experience than me. How many naps per day and for how long are your LOs sleeping? I know every child is different, but I have no idea. I SAH so I don't have a daycare napping schedule to carry over or any other experience.

We do 3 naps a day, sometimes 4 if he's up really early or all naps are short. Usually I get two 90 minute naps and one 45, but sometimes it's reverse.

[FlutterOfYoshis]

Jul 2, 2015 11:03:48 GMT -5 cougarette said:

I also don't have any advice since I'd be doing what you're doing too. Hopefully the sleep sense helps! Can your H or one of your house guests take over so you can rest?

I'm making DH take over from the moment he gets home tonight. He's really helpful when he is here for the weekend, but weekdays are the worst, whenever they're strung together and it's just me.

[FlutterOfYoshis]

Jul 2, 2015 11:20:56 GMT -5 agm04 said:

Oh boy do I feel for you. We had some insane nap fighting going on at our house for WEEKS. I'm certainly no expert, but what helped us was getting her caught up on sleep by whatever means necessary for a couple days. Then we were very consistent with routine and napping in her crib - sometimes fighting her for the full hour before stopping (horrible). The Merlin magic sleep suit seems to be really helpful for her. She still only gets one sleep cycle for a lot of naps, but she goes to sleep so much better on her own. The last week or so has been hard - still so much better for the most part, but some fighting and some waking after one sleep cycle at bed time. Like I said, no expert here! The suit saved our lives though. Ours hated the swaddle too.

Mostly I just know how you feel and want to say you're not doing anything wrong and you're not alone! Like aggiebug said, some babies are just harder. I know mine is!

Thanks, I'm working on being more consistent this week. I tried getting her more sleep last week by being a little more lax, but it'd still been rough. I'm hoping the consistency may help in the long run.

I'm afraid the Merlin suit will be too warm. Our house is still pretty warm upstairs even when we turn the thermostat down and turn the ceiling fans on. She's also rolling.

[FlutterOfYoshis]

Jul 2, 2015 11:22:47 GMT -5 lilyelayne said:

Hugs. I don't think you're doing anything wrong, but it may be time for some sleep training. No experience there, but good luck!

Can you try starting nap routine earlier & adding an activity, like massage or reading a calm book? Something to signal hey it's about to be sleep time, but not go to sleep this instant or something she can sleep through.

Yeah I could probably add a book in. At least she'd like to hear the sound of our voice even though she doesn't necessarily care to pay attention to the books just yet.

[WittyLittle]

Also mainly hugs and commiserations from my side. DS is also a crappy napper as well. We get 3 or 4 naps of half an hour in. One big problem is DH isn't consistent and will just let him fall asleep anywhere.

If in the mean time before your sleep training i guess youre looking for small fixes? i can only think of a few things from what ive been advised:
-make sure the white noise machine is positioned to teally block out noise. Ours was in a corner before, where there was no noise. We moved it now to thd door.
-if he tends to move to one part of the crib lay him doen like that from the gef go. Hes gonna move there anyway and get worked up doing it.
-stay confident. Be consistent in your routine and know youre doing things right! Thd little darlings can smell your fear/frustration.

We're still very much working on this but those are some quick fixes i could think of. Good luck. Things will get better. Soon!!!

[FlutterOfYoshis]

Jul 2, 2015 12:09:43 GMT -5 junebugjam said:

I feel for you. My baby was an awful sleeper. I would start sleep sense as soon as possible. It was a lifesaver for us and 2 weekends is REALLY far away when you're not getting any sleep. It's worth it to start now and your visitors will just have to deal with it.

I'm so sorry you're struggling with this but you are not doing anything wrong. Some babies are just bad sleepers unfortunately but sleep training really did wonders for my baby and he sounds very similar to yours. Feel free to ask questions if you have any.

Yeah, I told my husband today that 2 weekends is probably too far. I guess we were just kind of hoping to be able to start her off in a more ideal week when DH could get off work, we didn't have a wedding and baptism class and such. Who schedules a baptism class from 7:30-8:30pm and requires both parents to be there? I mean seriously. Lol

Eta: Less concerned about the visitors than the random events at night. Visitors cam deal :-P

[aggiebug]

FlutterOfYoshis have you tried putting her on her tummy for naps? I know some sleep better on their tummy.

I am just trying to think of something that might help because it does suck yo.

[junebugjam]

FlutterOfYoshis our baptism class was at the same time also! I was so mad lol. My mom came to watch the baby while we went to the class. Other people brought their babies but I knew he'd be too miserable. Does your LO take a bottle (I can't keep track who BF, FF, etc)? You could have someone else do bedtime while you're at the class. But honestly my LO goes to sleep anywhere between 6 & 7 now, so maybe she'll be asleep already!

[mishka29]

I'm sorry you are having such a tough time! Hugs!

What you described is exactly my older DD. We set our sleep sense training weekend but the days leading up to it were some of the worst in my life. I really felt like I was loosing my mind. When she was tired she was not a happy baby and she was tired all the time bc she wouldn't sleep.

Having used the sleep sense training with both my girls I agree that you should wait until you have a good block of time where you can do the same thing each night and maintain consistency especially when they are learning. You can use this time to reinforce the bedtime routine but ultimately I would still do whatever needs to be done to get them to sleep bc that is more important than worrying about a bad habit.

[FlutterOfYoshis]

aggiebug I read that and was about to try it...then she just now successfully fell asleep on her SIDE with the pacifier wedged between her mouth and the mattress! Little weirdo lol. At least she's actually asleep in the crib for the second time ever. She's been awake for almost 4 hours since she failed completely at the last nap attempt, so I'm just thankful she's sleeping even if it only lasts 4 minutes.

junebugjam You'd think they'd consider the babies' bedtimes since they're the ones being baptized lol. We haven't figured out what to do about whether or not we'd take her to the class yet. She's EBF (been refusing a bottle since 2mos), and her bedtime usually falls anywhere between 7 and 8. In theory we could put her down early and let MIL watch her while we left, but MIL doesn't know yet if she gets the day off of work to make it here on time. I know baby girl will be a cranky mess if she has to come with us.

[aggiebug]

stay asleep baby FlutterOfYoshis! DD was falling asleep on her side and would wake up when she would flop onto her back, I have put her on her tummy she doesn't do that.

[FlutterOfYoshis]

Jul 2, 2015 14:40:12 GMT -5 mishka29 said:

I'm sorry you are having such a tough time! Hugs!

What you described is exactly my older DD. We set our sleep sense training weekend but the days leading up to it were some of the worst in my life. I really felt like I was loosing my mind. When she was tired she was not a happy baby and she was tired all the time bc she wouldn't sleep.

Having used the sleep sense training with both my girls I agree that you should wait until you have a good block of time where you can do the same thing each night and maintain consistency especially when they are learning. You can use this time to reinforce the bedtime routine but ultimately I would still do whatever needs to be done to get them to sleep bc that is more important than worrying about a bad habit.

That's good to hear you got through it. My MIL told DH that all 4 of her babies were bad sleepers so she had to give up sleep training. I've never known her to say something so pessimistic. H has it stuck in his head now that while we can try, nothing will work anyway. I'm holding onto a shred of hope.

I was leaving the pacifier to deal with during sleep training, but I thought it wise to have her stop falling asleep on me and instead work on getting her a little more experience sleeping in the crib (during naps) since she's still not in there consistently. I don't know whether or not that's flawed thinking.

[FlutterOfYoshis]

Jul 2, 2015 14:57:38 GMT -5 aggiebug said:

stay asleep baby FlutterOfYoshis! DD was falling asleep on her side and would wake up when she would flop onto her back, I have put her on her tummy she doesn't do that.

LOL the flop just happened to DD. But she slept 33 minutes! I'll take it.

[lilyelayne]

Jul 2, 2015 14:14:22 GMT -5 FlutterOfYoshis said:

Jul 2, 2015 11:22:47 GMT -5 lilyelayne said:

Hugs. I don't think you're doing anything wrong, but it may be time for some sleep training. No experience there, but good luck!

Can you try starting nap routine earlier & adding an activity, like massage or reading a calm book? Something to signal hey it's about to be sleep time, but not go to sleep this instant or something she can sleep through.

Yeah I could probably add a book in. At least she'd like to hear the sound of our voice even though she doesn't necessarily care to pay attention to the books just yet.

It's definitely the sound of my voice that DS likes, not the book, but it gives him time & space to relax & wind down in a way that rocking or lullabies (from a cd not not sung by me) didn't.
Good luck!

[FlutterOfYoshis]

Thank you all for helping me get through today. DH is home, we're going through the bedtime routine now (added in reading a book and saying goodnight to things in the room), and set a plan to start sleep training this weekend instead of 2 weeks from now. FX this helps us all get some more sleep (and that it rains enough here that fireworks won't be an issue lol)!

[mishka29]

Jul 2, 2015 15:02:11 GMT -5 FlutterOfYoshis said:

Jul 2, 2015 14:40:12 GMT -5 mishka29 said:

I'm sorry you are having such a tough time! Hugs!

What you described is exactly my older DD. We set our sleep sense training weekend but the days leading up to it were some of the worst in my life. I really felt like I was loosing my mind. When she was tired she was not a happy baby and she was tired all the time bc she wouldn't sleep.

Having used the sleep sense training with both my girls I agree that you should wait until you have a good block of time where you can do the same thing each night and maintain consistency especially when they are learning. You can use this time to reinforce the bedtime routine but ultimately I would still do whatever needs to be done to get them to sleep bc that is more important than worrying about a bad habit.

That's good to hear you got through it. My MIL told DH that all 4 of her babies were bad sleepers so she had to give up sleep training. I've never known her to say something so pessimistic. H has it stuck in his head now that while we can try, nothing will work anyway. I'm holding onto a shred of hope.

I was leaving the pacifier to deal with during sleep training, but I thought it wise to have her stop falling asleep on me and instead work on getting her a little more experience sleeping in the crib (during naps) since she's still not in there consistently. I don't know whether or not that's flawed thinking.

Not a flawed way of thinking at all. But when you are already at the end of your rope sometimes you gotta do what works. I found that things that normally worked - nursing, moby wrap, walking, car - slowly stopped working. Good luck! I hope it goes well this weekend.

[taberbtb]

I agree with agm04 and starting out by getting her caught up on her sleep however you can, bad habits and all, before you start and kind of training and/or routine.

B was an awful napper and not a great sleeper until she could roll well. Once she could roll herself onto her tummy and back off if she wanted all of her sleep improved dramatically. I considered myself extremely lucky if I got an hour nap. Now she will take a short 45-60 min nap in the a.m. and a 2-3hr afternoon nap. I tried everything to help her nap longer but really she did it on her own in her own time.

ETA: Good luck!

[toadandbuggie]

Hugs. DS is a crappy napper for me often. It's so hard sometimes to get him to sleep without using any of the techniques of rocking, nursing, etc.

What has helped me is putting him in the crib while he's still wide awake but he has given me some tired cues such as eye rubbing/yawning. Then I give him his pacifier and walk out. He fusses somewhat, and after a couple minutes if it increases, I go back in and shush him. I continue that until he falls asleep on his own. I put DS on his tummy which he seems to prefer.

I know my baby needs to take a nap every 2-3 hours of being awake. If he doesn't, he gets overtired and therefore much harder to put down and stay down.

[toadandbuggie]

Can someone explain sleep sense? Do I really need the book? I'm going to try to put DS to sleep without his pacifier (sometimes he doesn't want it anyway), but it seems like the premise of the book is 'learning to fall asleep on their own.' Is there any good info I'm missing?

[mishka29]

Jul 3, 2015 7:17:04 GMT -5 toadandbuggie said:

Can someone explain sleep sense? Do I really need the book? I'm going to try to put DS to sleep without his pacifier (sometimes he doesn't want it anyway), but it seems like the premise of the book is 'learning to fall asleep on their own.' Is there any good info I'm missing?

It would be good to read the book if you are going to do the program. It's a quick read and if you google sleep sense training pdf you can find it. It's a CIO method with periodic checks, stressing the importance of a routine and eliminating all sleep props with the exception of one lovie which is only for the crib. 

[seamonster]

LO is a terrible napper and the only fairly consistent nap times are about when we drive to and from daycare. There naps are all over the place and range from 20 minutes to 2 hours depending on the day. Nights are better and it helped to start bedtime even earlier. It sucks to have so little time with him during the week, but he needs the sleep. I've been periodically starting around 630 rather than 7 and it seems to help. He still fights sleep, but he gets more.

[agm04]

Idk how to tag people, but DD takes 4-5 naps a day, depending on wake up time and length of naps. The last nap of the day is almost always pretty short, which I've read is normal. I think they're "supposed" to be taking 3-4 (dropping the 4th nap) sometime between 4-6 months, but I'm filing that under every baby is different. I'm not gonna drop a nap if she needs it - we all suffer that way. And since she's not taking 90 minute naps most of the time, she will probably continue to need it until she sorts that out.

Wanted to add that longer naps seem like something they might figure out in their own time, given the right support. I think DD is slowly turning one of her naps (typically 45-50 minutes, one sleep cycle) into 2-3 sleep cycles. Hopefully the other naps follow. It's hard not to stress about it when they're all cranky though.