So a lot of us have babies that don't do well in our arms, sleeping next to us, or on their own. Something has to give right. So I bought the ferber book this past weekend and have been reading it. We're breaking the nursing to sleep association and trying to lengthen time between feeds at night. I'll post the guide in helping to change sleep associations below.
There's lots of info on how to do it correctly I can post it if people are interested if not then the schedule should help. He basically says be consistent and do what feels okay. So if starting with 3 minutes seems too much start with less.
I'm very glad to see this thread. I feel like sleep training hasn't been talked about much lately and I know people probably have mixed feelings about it. But for those of us trying it, it's really hard, and I think it helps to have a place to talk about it.
I wish I could do Ferber. I've tried to go in and comfort her, but she wants none of it. I could stand there for an hour trying to comfort her and it would be useless. In fact, I think it would make her more hysterical. So we've sort of started doing some straight up CIO after MOTN feeds if she won't go back down, or at naptime while we're trying to establish a crib nap.
I hate letting her cry though. It sucks. I feel terrible, and it makes me really irritable and agitated the whole time it's happening. I just want the crying to stop. I know it works though, so I'm trying to stick with it.
For now we're still going to do a MOTN feed as long as it has been at least 3 hours since the last feed (her weight gain is also slow though, so that's why I'm reluctant to drop the night feeds yet). Any less time, and we'll be doing CIO.
I'm trying to expand the time between feedings to 3.5 hours tonight and if he wakes up before then H has agreed to go in. Tomorrow it will be 4 hours. His weight gain has been okay since we had that major dip in the beginning but I'm probably still only going to take him down to one feed(rather than 0 feeds) in the motn. We'll see how it goes. W is also the type of baby who will scream while you're holding him. He really only goes down easy if he's nursed to sleep but he wants that at least every sleep cycle so neither of us sleeps well. I'm relying on the swing to help with the cio because I found out today that if I go in there to comfort him it's 100% worse for him. I was anti cio too but I know we both need good sleep (he had bags under his eyes until he was 3+ months). Fx all of our babies learn to soothe themselves back to sleep.
aydee my first was a poster child for Ferber. It worked like a dream and by the third night she was going to sleep with almost no tears and started sleeping 10 hours at night. My second couldn't handle the checks and would just get more hysterical. We had to just leave her alone. She also woke up once to nurse until she was about 11 months old. Didn't bother me as long as I could just put her back in her crib.
Thea is all over the damn place. Sometimes she doesn't cry at all. Sometimes I have to rub her back until she falls asleep. Sometimes it just takes a couple of checks. Her night wakings have lessened, but aren't predictable at all.
There's lots of info on how to do it correctly I can post it if people are interested if not then the schedule should help. He basically says be consistent and do what feels okay. So if starting with 3 minutes seems too much start with less.
I'm interested in the info.
We have been doing our own version of sleep training since Sunday night (night 3!). My first big change was all naps were in DSs crib. We dropped the swaddle cold turkey and went with a regular sleep sack for warmth. Naps have been going ok but length is unpredictable. He will do one 2 hr nap and then two 1 hr naps but when these happen are unpredictable. I'm working on having his long nap match DDs nap time.
For nights we have really honed in on his night routine. We matched the routines of DD and DS. He seems to like it better. And we stopped co-sleeping completely. Once DS is in his room for the night he doesn't leave the room until morning. I put him down drowsy but still awake and pat his bum until he falls asleep. Our issue now is that he's eating 4-5 times a night and waking up 2-3 other times for the paci to be put back. One battle at a time.
I think we are all doing a bit better not being in the same room. I know I love the freedom of no baby in the bed anymore.
Last night went well. H took all the wakeups before midnight (because we were stretching time between feeds). I fed him at 1230. He woke up again 2.5 hrs later (we were trying to do 3.5 between feeds so H took it). It took a couple tries for him to go down and he woke up 3 more times but he was able to soothe himself back to sleep w/o much fussing. Woke me up at 630 and we fed again. We're now playing on the may and he looks as happy as ever. Wish me luck for this next nap.
So last night went well. I am still fine with feeding in the motn, so if she has gone over 4 hours I will nurse her. Last night she did three wake ups after the initial put down. The first two, I let her see that I was there, sushed her and put a hand on her for a minute, then "went away" for three and alternated that until she was asleep. The longest she cried was 15 minutes. The third time I fed her and she then slept for 6 hours! Then I fed her again and she slept another hour. She seems very well rested and happy right now. Yay for success of night one!
I'm getting ready to tackle her first nap. My plan is to rock her and if she is calm, I will put her down. If she cries herself to sleep in my arms, I may just rock her for her nap. We will see. We had such a good experience with the overnight last night, I don't want to mess it up by pushing too hard with naps too. Although I am NOT bouncing her anymore. It is physically exauhsting and makes my patience run out too fast.
Thanks for all the info packmomma! We started last night. I discovered though that me going in for checks makes her more agitated. I would go in because she was fussing and it'd turn into full on crying bc I was there. She did OK. She woke up 5 times overnight. One of the times it took her an hour to go back to sleep but she didn't cry at all, just intermittent fussing. I too am OK with MOTN feeds but wasn't sure when to do them- I like the 4 hour parameter. I have the Sleep Lady book and I think she says no nursing until 4am. I offered at 2, 4, and 6am but the first two times she nursed briefly then passed out so I don't think she was actually hungry until 6am.
Question. What are you doing about naps? DD2 has been doing OK swaddled with the paci for naps. Unswaddled she'll knock the paci out so it was no use last night. Should I be working on night sleep first then naps or would it be confusing to swaddle her for naps?
noname I too am wondering about naps, but the info packmomma posted was helpful about doing the same thing for naps, but call the nap if they wake up.
I just posted about my plan for this nap, but it didn't go according to plan. I was going to rock her for her nap, but she was crying and thrashing in my arms. I thought how silly it was to try and force her to sleep in my arms when the goal is to get her out, so I put her in the rnp and she cried for less than ten minutes. She has been asleep now for about thirty. She is still swaddled. I'm trying not to think about breaking the swaddle and moving to the crib. One step at a time...
This is the guide for reducing the number of feeds at night. He's says " no normal, healthy full term babies still require a nighttime feeding when they are 5 months old, and you can certainly insist on stopping them altogether at that point if you want to." I'm not sure if the la Leche league would agree and one motn feed doesn't bother me so we're just going to stretch the two feeds until it's just the one in the middle after 6ish hours.
I think we're ready to sleep train, but after reading other's situations, I wonder if I'm jumping the gun. DD goes to sleep by 7pm and has recently started waking up once between 8-10pm. She will only go back to sleep if rocked. Then another wake up (usually at 2am) to eat a bottle. Then back to sleep until 7am.
Believe me, I know that in the scheme of things this is really not bad, but my fear is that she does not know how to soothe herself to sleep. I'm afraid that this is going to get worse as her sleep cycles change. Some nights are already worse, but some nights are better.
I feel like we're dealing with sleep associations that need to be broken, even if our actual sleep is not that bad (yet). Am I jumping the gun here? Any input is appreciated.
I also salute all of you who are in the thick of it - sleep training is so hard but from what I can tell, extremely effective.
---- 39 years old, MH is 43 TTC since 2010; Dx Unexplained Infertility; possible male factor 6 IUIs, 1 IVF, 2 FETs, 1 mmc, 1 CP Started Adoption process Feb 2015, officially waiting July 2015
lizblue how old is your dd? Ava has been a great sleeper, but had always needed to be nursed to sleep at night. I never had a problem with it because it was at most threee wakeups to nurse and then right back down. It only became a problem when the wakeups started to change to every hour and then even less than that.
I'm a big believer of it's not a problem until it's a problem for you. Meaning, if she needs help to get to sleep but it isn't problematic (it is working for both of you) I personally wouldn't change anything preemptively. The reason I started sleep training was because it became a huge problem. If I were you, I wouldn't fix what isn't broken, but I would definitely have a plan in place for what to do if it starts to get worse.
lizblue how old is your dd? Ava has been a great sleeper, but had always needed to be nursed to sleep at night. I never had a problem with it because it was at most threee wakeups to nurse and then right back down. It only became a problem when the wakeups started to change to every hour and then even less than that.
I'm a big believer of it's not a problem until it's a problem for you. Meaning, if she needs help to get to sleep but it isn't problematic (it is working for both of you) I personally wouldn't change anything preemptively. The reason I started sleep training was because it became a huge problem. If I were you, I wouldn't fix what isn't broken, but I would definitely have a plan in place for what to do if it starts to get worse.
Thanks zonagirl-- that is sort of my thinking. DD is five months old. I see glimmers of it getting worse, but we're not there yet. You're right - it's not a problem until it's a problem. And it is good to have a plan for that.
---- 39 years old, MH is 43 TTC since 2010; Dx Unexplained Infertility; possible male factor 6 IUIs, 1 IVF, 2 FETs, 1 mmc, 1 CP Started Adoption process Feb 2015, officially waiting July 2015
This is the guide for reducing the number of feeds at night. He's says " no normal, healthy full term babies still require a nighttime feeding when they are 5 months old, and you can certainly insist on stopping them altogether at that point if you want to." I'm not sure if the la Leche league would agree and one motn feed doesn't bother me so we're just going to stretch the two feeds until it's just the one in the middle after 6ish hours.
Is he really saying go from 5 hours to 12 hours though? That doesn't seem logical with the previous day schedules...
My pediatrician says night feelings are still perfectly normal for breastfed babies at 5 or 6 months. Maybe this only applies to formula babies? My kid certainly doesn't take 8 oz at a time.
I might go buy that book. Sigh. After the night feeding thread I feel like I must be doing it all wrong.
Nursing back to sleep works, so it is why you do it so don't beat yourself up over it! But it's comfort, not nourishment, at this point so you can slowly work to stop. Pack momma had a great idea, make dad do half of the wake ups. That's how we broke the comfort nursing. Dad can't give in and feed her!
And when we are really desperate or she is sick, I absolutely cheat and nurse to sleep still. Ha.
So I'm a little confused about how Ferber says to end the nap once they wake up crying. Ava just had her second nap of the day and it was only thirty minutes. I'm afraid that her bad naps are going to mess with night sleep. Although at this point, she isn't sleeping well for naps anywhere but the car. I may do one car nap a day until this all gets straightened out...
Post by trudytrudy on Jan 27, 2016 12:54:51 GMT -5
lizblue I'm in your situation. My baby is waking consistently about twice a night and has a crutch with the pacifier. Her sleeping isn't awesome but it's not a problem yet. She is only 5 months. I'm going to keep working with her and try to gently encourage good habits. If things take a nose dive and remain tough then I will sleep train her down the road. Right now I plan to try to stay consistent and follow this thread in case we decide to CIO. I did it with my first baby, he was a bad sleeper. Sleep training sucked a lot and it wasn't a quick fix but we were out of options and had to do something. Now he sleeps great.
So I'm a little confused about how Ferber says to end the nap once they wake up crying. Ava just had her second nap of the day and it was only thirty minutes. I'm afraid that her bad naps are going to mess with night sleep. Although at this point, she isn't sleeping well for naps anywhere but the car. I may do one car nap a day until this all gets straightened out...
For us there is a pretty clear direct correlation with daytime sleep and nighttime sleep, so I decided to go ahead and swaddle her for her naps today in the hopes that she naps well and therefore will sleep well tonight. She's been napping in the crib for almost a month now, so we don't have that hurdle, but I am a little concerned that putting her down swaddled during the day but not the night may complicate things. She's napping great today though, I don't know if she's just tired from last night or if it's just a coincidence, but I'm hoping it translates to good sleep tonight. I know the Sleep Lady book says that when you're working on nighttime sleep to do whatever you can to "fill up the sleep tank" during the day, so I would think a car nap would be ok.
I might go buy that book. Sigh. After the night feeding thread I feel like I must be doing it all wrong.
Do what works for you. There isn't a right or a wrong.
Sleep training may or may not be for you. Ferber may work or not work for you. One of the million other approach to sleep training may work better for you. It's your kid and you know your kid best. So do that. Don't let some "expert" make you question that.
I didn't do sleep training for DS1 at all. Though when he hit about a year, I night weaned him since I was going to be going out of town for several nights for work. At 15 months, he started sleeping through the night with no sleep training and he was a terrible sleeper (up 2-3 times a night) without sleep training. He is now a great sleeper.
I realize this is more of an anti-sleep training post. And quite frankly, do you. If sleep training is what you need to do, then do it. Don't want to sleep train? That's cool too. I just get really upset when people think there is a right or wrong way to do things because some asshole got a book deal. I'm equally tired of bloggers pointing all the ways parents suck at parenting. As a parent, I hear more about what I'm doing wrong and how my child is going to become a ax murderer than I hear about the weather. Are you caring and nurturing your child? Congratulations, you win. Now go eat a cookie.
I might go buy that book. Sigh. After the night feeding thread I feel like I must be doing it all wrong.
It was like $10 on amazon. I'm finding it really useful. Edit to add: you're not doing anything wrong if it works for you. If everyone's happy,healthy, and safe then don't change anything. We were neither happy nor healthy. I told H if W would sttn next to me then we'd cosleep until he was a year but he wakes up every hour if he's next to me. That means he has to sleep seperately and the only way to get him to soothe himself to sleep is sleep training (he won't take a pacifier). So here we are.
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