I feel more comfortable changing in front of other women.
Honest question because I'm curious: Why?
I've never thought it about before beyond "This is what we do," but this post made me think harder about it. Why am I less comfortable disrobing in front of a man? If anything, a man has probably seen more boobs and vaginas than I have ever seen.
I think you are right that tradition / socialization have a lot to do with it. American culture has some strong puritanical underpinnings and we tend to be more prudish about all kinds of nudity than other cultures.
Eta: I would be interested in a world where everyone just shared a changing room. It would make life easier for families at the Y...
I've never thought it about before beyond "This is what we do," but this post made me think harder about it. Why am I less comfortable disrobing in front of a man? If anything, a man has probably seen more boobs and vaginas than I have ever seen.
I think you are right that tradition / socialization have a lot to do with it. American culture has some strong puritanical underpinnings and we tend to be more prudish about all kinds of nudity than other cultures.
Are separate dressing rooms common in other countries? It's easy to say that the US has sex problems (and I agree), but what about countries with less puritanical histories?
I think you are right that tradition / socialization have a lot to do with it. American culture has some strong puritanical underpinnings and we tend to be more prudish about all kinds of nudity than other cultures.
Are separate dressing rooms common in other countries? It's easy to say that the US has sex problems (and I agree), but what about countries with less puritanical histories?
I went to some hot baths in Iceland and they were separated by sex. But people were more comfortable being naked inside them. I think nude beaches are more common in other places than they are here.
Eta: the changing rooms were separated, not the baths...
Are separate dressing rooms common in other countries? It's easy to say that the US has sex problems (and I agree), but what about countries with less puritanical histories?
I went to some hot baths in Iceland and they were separated by sex. But people were more comfortable being naked inside them. I think nude beaches are more common in other places than they are here.
Eta: the changing rooms were separated, not the baths...
Ah, yes. True, true.
I'm just thinking out loud about these issues as I've never thought about them before.
I've never thought it about before beyond "This is what we do," but this post made me think harder about it. Why am I less comfortable disrobing in front of a man? If anything, a man has probably seen more boobs and vaginas than I have ever seen.
I think you are right that tradition / socialization have a lot to do with it. American culture has some strong puritanical underpinnings and we tend to be more prudish about all kinds of nudity than other cultures.
Eta: I would be interested in a world where everyone just shared a changing room. It would make life easier for families at the Y...
Most Y's have a family changing room somewhere in the facility and children of the opposite sex are allowed in the other locker room until a certain age (I think it's 8 here).
Post by anonymouseliza on Mar 9, 2015 13:13:03 GMT -5
While I think this is a discussion worth entertaining, in the actual instance the women's locker room had closed changing and bathroom stalls. Which makes it even more irrelevant and makes it even more clear that the member who was dismissed was being harassing to continue to 'warn' people.
I actually understand a gut reaction of "But how do you stop people from taking advantage to prey on others" - but you have to understand that that is present whether a transgendered person changes in their identified gender's locker room or not. This was covered above, but it's an issue of perception now, right? Nothing has actually changed except our awareness of danger.
As far as being more comfortable changing with men or women, I would prefer to use a stall either way. I don't care who is outside of the stall. That is part of the debate here. While I have never been to a Planet Fitness, it has been noted that there are stalls available for use. So, if someone has concerns about being ogled by males or females, they have the option to hide themselves if they choose.
I feel more comfortable changing in front of other women.
Honest question because I'm curious: Why?
I've never thought it about before beyond "This is what we do," but this post made me think harder about it. Why am I less comfortable disrobing in front of a man? If anything, a man has probably seen more boobs and vaginas than I have ever seen.
Like I said it is not religious, but I really do not want other men to see my private parts that are not my husband. I am not really a prude, but I am also not totally free with my body.
Maybe it is environment/how I was raised. Though my mom would walk around the house naked all the time (when only family was home)... so maybe not
Like I said it is not religious, but I really do not want other men to see my private parts that are not my husband. I am not really a prude, but I am also not totally free with my body.
Maybe it is environment/how I was raised. Though my mom would walk around the house naked all the time (when only family was home)... so maybe not
That's fair. Like I said, I'm asking out of curiosity not judgment.
Can I ask why it's okay for a woman to see your private parts, though? They are not your husband, either.
EDIT: If you don't want to answer, you obviously don't have to. I'm not trying to put you on the spot; I'm just thinking out loud. You don't have to entertain my questions if you don't want to.
I've never thought it about before beyond "This is what we do," but this post made me think harder about it. Why am I less comfortable disrobing in front of a man? If anything, a man has probably seen more boobs and vaginas than I have ever seen.
Like I said it is not religious, but I really do not want other men to see my private parts that are not my husband. I am not really a prude, but I am also not totally free with my body.
Maybe it is environment/how I was raised. Though my mom would walk around the house naked all the time (when only family was home)... so maybe not
I walk around my house naked all the time, but I still don't want anyone looking at my goods!
Are separate dressing rooms common in other countries? It's easy to say that the US has sex problems (and I agree), but what about countries with less puritanical histories?
I went to some hot baths in Iceland and they were separated by sex. But people were more comfortable being naked inside them. I think nude beaches are more common in other places than they are here.
Eta: the changing rooms were separated, not the baths...
This is the understatement of the year. I remember my 18 yo self being a little traumatized by what "real" women look like. I was the only idiot who was trying to hide behind a curtain.
I've never thought it about before beyond "This is what we do," but this post made me think harder about it. Why am I less comfortable disrobing in front of a man? If anything, a man has probably seen more boobs and vaginas than I have ever seen.
Like I said it is not religious, but I really do not want other men to see my private parts that are not my husband. I am not really a prude, but I am also not totally free with my body.
Maybe it is environment/how I was raised. Though my mom would walk around the house naked all the time (when only family was home)... so maybe not
For some reason in my heart and mind, marriage is where the line gets drawn for me. As a single person I would probably feel perfectly fine changing in front of men in a locker room situation. As a married woman, I feel like my husband should be the only man to see me naked. And I think he probably feels the same way!
Like I said it is not religious, but I really do not want other men to see my private parts that are not my husband. I am not really a prude, but I am also not totally free with my body.
Maybe it is environment/how I was raised. Though my mom would walk around the house naked all the time (when only family was home)... so maybe not
That's fair. Like I said, I'm asking out of curiosity not judgment.
Can I ask why it's okay for a woman to see your private parts, though? They are not your husband, either.
EDIT: If you don't want to answer, you obviously don't have to. I'm not trying to put you on the spot; I'm just thinking out loud. You don't have to entertain my questions if you don't want to.
It is the attitude that she has her own, so it is not a big deal. And if I am being completely honest I have been ogled by many men and never (at least obviously) by a woman (straight or gay).
I have hung out with a lot of straight males, and gay/bi women... the straight males have a much higher rate of making me feel uncomfortable through comments and non-verbals.
It could be that the men are more vocal about noticing appearance/sex appeal and not as good at hiding their glances. IDK I can only speak to my own experiences.
It is the attitude that she has her own, so it is not a big deal. And if I am being completely honest I have been ogled by many men and never (at least obviously) by a woman (straight or gay).
I have hung out with a lot of straight males, and gay/bi women... the straight males have a much higher rate of making me feel uncomfortable through comments and non-verbals.
It could be that the men are more vocal about noticing appearance/sex appeal and not as good at hiding their glances. IDK I can only speak to my own experiences.
So, could we say that a valid argument for women changing separate from men is to minimize the sexual remarks/unwanted looks that straight men often give to women (both straight and lesbian)?
I can see that.
I think this is where my head is at...
I fully understand not wanting to be seen naked by others who might find me sexually attractive. No one wants unwanted stares or to stand there wondering if the guy looking at you naked is having some crazy thoughts. Totally understood. Hence, minimization of this has been historically brought about separating the sexes since men weren't attracted to men and women weren't attracted to women.
But we all know this isn't true. A woman who is attracted to other women could be sneaking looks at you in the locker room. The same is true for mens' room.
So do we just opt for the choice that has less probability of being problematic? Is the idea that those attracted to the same sex are less common than those who are heterosexual? So, we keep separate changing rooms/locker rooms because it does minimize unwanted sexual looks?
Is this reason enough to continue the practice? Are we maligning straight men too much?
In college my dorm had co-ed bathrooms, so I shared a shower room with folks with penises. We had curtains between the shower heads/shower stalls. It was no bigs. I would much rather have a man taking a shower on the other side of a curtain than a female taking a shower next to me with no separation - if you're an adult and I'm not about to have sex with you, I would rather not see you naked, no matter what your sex/gender/sexual orientation. And my guess would be that the feeling would be mutual.
Plus, frankly, unless I've had a weird gym locker room experience, if a cisgender male snuck into the women's locker room under the false pretense of being trans he would mostly just get an eyeful of naked ladies that no one really wants to see naked. I'm pretty sure I've never seen a woman under 65 just strutting around naked. Everyone else either changed in a room or was very quick and discreet and it would be super creepy for any person to be staring intently at them during that brief moment.
It is the attitude that she has her own, so it is not a big deal. And if I am being completely honest I have been ogled by many men and never (at least obviously) by a woman (straight or gay).
I have hung out with a lot of straight males, and gay/bi women... the straight males have a much higher rate of making me feel uncomfortable through comments and non-verbals.
It could be that the men are more vocal about noticing appearance/sex appeal and not as good at hiding their glances. IDK I can only speak to my own experiences.
So, could we say that a valid argument for women changing separate from men is to minimize the sexual remarks/unwanted looks that straight men often give to women (both straight and lesbian)?
I can see that.
I think this is where my head is at...
I fully understand not wanting to be seen naked by others who might find me sexually attractive. No one wants unwanted stares or to stand there wondering if the guy looking at you naked is having some crazy thoughts. Totally understood. Hence, minimization of this has been historically brought about separating the sexes since men weren't attracted to men and women weren't attracted to women.
But we all know this isn't true. A woman who is attracted to other women could be sneaking looks at you in the locker room. The same is true for mens' room.
So do we just opt for the choice that has less probability of being problematic? Is the idea that those attracted to the same sex are less common than those who are heterosexual? So, we keep separate changing rooms/locker rooms because it does minimize unwanted sexual looks?
Is this reason enough to continue the practice? Are we maligning straight men too much?
::Joy continues thinking outloud::
It is complicated and like in most areas, there will always be an exception to any rule... so there is probably no perfect solution.
So, could we say that a valid argument for women changing separate from men is to minimize the sexual remarks/unwanted looks that straight men often give to women (both straight and lesbian)?
I can see that.
I think this is where my head is at...
I fully understand not wanting to be seen naked by others who might find me sexually attractive. No one wants unwanted stares or to stand there wondering if the guy looking at you naked is having some crazy thoughts. Totally understood. Hence, minimization of this has been historically brought about separating the sexes since men weren't attracted to men and women weren't attracted to women.
But we all know this isn't true. A woman who is attracted to other women could be sneaking looks at you in the locker room. The same is true for mens' room.
So do we just opt for the choice that has less probability of being problematic? Is the idea that those attracted to the same sex are less common than those who are heterosexual? So, we keep separate changing rooms/locker rooms because it does minimize unwanted sexual looks?
Is this reason enough to continue the practice? Are we maligning straight men too much?
::Joy continues thinking outloud::
It is complicated and like in most areas, there will always be an exception to any rule... so there is probably no perfect solution.
Post by anonymouseliza on Mar 9, 2015 14:28:09 GMT -5
I like to walk around my house naked. I do not like to walk around naked where other people can see me. I'm not sure if it's prudery (it's sure as hell not religiously based except in long-past morality lessons from childhood), or comfort, or what. I've never had an issue with being naked or felt up by a male doc versus a female doc, so it's sort of weird that I would feel uncomfortable being completely nude in front of a man and not a woman.
daisy818, The only thing that comes to mind with the "what about the pervs" arguement, is that they obviously haven't been to my gym locker room at 7am after the aqua-fitness class gets out. It just seems like so much effort for much less reward than can be had by searching the internet or going to a regular beach. You see way more skin at a public beach than you do in my locker room (with the exception of my very sweet aqua-fitness locker neighbors anyway!)
daisy818, The only thing that comes to mind with the "what about the pervs" arguement, is that they obviously haven't been to my gym locker room at 7am after the aqua-fitness class gets out. It just seems like so much effort for much less reward than can be had by searching the internet or going to a regular beach. You see way more skin at a public beach than you do in my locker room (with the exception of my very sweet aqua-fitness locker neighbors anyway!)
This brings up another point that I had while thinking... so many bathing suits leave nothing to the imagination. Why if the nipple is covered do we think the boob is not exposed? Why if the ass crack is covered do we think that the ass is not exposed?
@emilie818, If I had to deal with catcalls, being asked out constantly, creepsters, stalkers, etc at the gym constantly, I'd be complaining to management. There's no excuse for unwanted advances at a gym. Gyms are not going to want to lose their female clients. The good gyms will do something about it.
I have never once heard a cat call at my gym directed at me or anyone else for that matter. It would never in a million years be tolerated. And my gym is filled with people in their early 20s.
daisy818, The only thing that comes to mind with the "what about the pervs" arguement, is that they obviously haven't been to my gym locker room at 7am after the aqua-fitness class gets out. It just seems like so much effort for much less reward than can be had by searching the internet or going to a regular beach. You see way more skin at a public beach than you do in my locker room (with the exception of my very sweet aqua-fitness locker neighbors anyway!)
This brings up another point that I had while thinking... so many bathing suits leave nothing to the imagination. Why if the nipple is covered do we think the boob is not exposed? Why if the ass crack is covered do we think that the ass is not exposed?
Again, just thinking.
The nipple debate drives me nuts. Men have nipples, so why are women's nipples so scandalous? Some men with gynecomastia can have bigger boobs then some women. Should they be required to hide their boobs in public? Are women who are very flat chested exempt from the no boob rule? I understand the apprehension about exposing male and female genitalia but not boobs. Boobs are awesome. Give me all the boobs!
So, could we say that a valid argument for women changing separate from men is to minimize the sexual remarks/unwanted looks that straight men often give to women (both straight and lesbian)?
I can see that.
I think this is where my head is at...
I fully understand not wanting to be seen naked by others who might find me sexually attractive. No one wants unwanted stares or to stand there wondering if the guy looking at you naked is having some crazy thoughts. Totally understood. Hence, minimization of this has been historically brought about separating the sexes since men weren't attracted to men and women weren't attracted to women.
But we all know this isn't true. A woman who is attracted to other women could be sneaking looks at you in the locker room. The same is true for mens' room.
So do we just opt for the choice that has less probability of being problematic? Is the idea that those attracted to the same sex are less common than those who are heterosexual? So, we keep separate changing rooms/locker rooms because it does minimize unwanted sexual looks?
Is this reason enough to continue the practice? Are we maligning straight men too much?
::Joy continues thinking outloud::
Yes. Let's not forget that rape culture and unwanted sexual advances are still a huge issue for women today. And the hard fact is that most of these advances come from straight men and are directed towards women, be they straight, lesbian, bi, trans. Of course, #notallmen, etc., BUT, there are a LOT of straight men out there who like to assert their power by treating women like sexual objects. And women deserve a safe space in which they don't have to deal with that.
In my early 20s, I joined a women's-only gym because I was sick of being hit on by gym bros when I just wanted to work out and not be bothered. I'm sure most of us here can relate to having to deal with catcalling, unwanted comments and/or advances, and or creepy stares or even stalkers. I personally have had to deal with all of those things, and I would not be comfortable getting naked in front of random men - even men that are my friends - because I DON'T trust most red-blooded straight men not to sexualize seeing my breasts and my genitals. Now one might say, what about lesbians in the locker room? Okay, sure, but I don't feel that there is that unfortunate dynamic of sexual fear between women that has existed for generations between straight men and women. Women, all women, deserve a safe space, be it a locker room, a bathroom, or whatever.
Post by easilyunamused on Mar 9, 2015 15:13:05 GMT -5
It's interesting that these conversations always veer off to men being pervy or leering at women in a locker room. The transgender woman might be into males so she won't even be interested in checking you out. I think that if you're (general you) so worried about it, you can change in the private rooms. It boils down to equality for all. If a man somehow gets into the woman's locker room to check them out, it's a totally different story and will be kicked out immediately. I don't know what that is ever brought up as an arguement against trans equality.
But we all know this isn't true. A woman who is attracted to other women could be sneaking looks at you in the locker room. The same is true for mens' room.ETA: 1) Fuck the box 2) I don't want to look at any naked body (other than my spouse), regardless of age, sex, orientation, or identity!
I think you are right that tradition / socialization have a lot to do with it. American culture has some strong puritanical underpinnings and we tend to be more prudish about all kinds of nudity than other cultures.
Are separate dressing rooms common in other countries? It's easy to say that the US has sex problems (and I agree), but what about countries with less puritanical histories?
I lived in Germany for a year and there were separate bathrooms/changing rooms. But you could also sun bathe naked in the park. And people did that. Nudity there seemed to be a bit of a non-thing.
Then Comes Family, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising
program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.