Can someone enlighten me, what is NIP? I Googled it and all I got was Ninjas in Pyjamas [sic]. There is also the National Institute for Psychotherapies, but I don't understand what being a mother has to do with that.
I want to agree with it, but it really seems to open the door to men (that identify as men) being in the womens locker room. I don't know. I mean, it's not exactly a policy they can enforce. So a man goes in the womens locker room, says he identifies as a woman, and now it's okay. What's to keep some men from lying?
This is what H and I were discussing earlier. I'm fully behind supporting someone in their gender journey, but it does bring up some interesting points. What is to stop someone from lying? And then how does that affect someone who truly does identify with the opposite gender? I wish it would be impossible to take advantage of something like this, makes me sad.
I want to agree with it, but it really seems to open the door to men (that identify as men) being in the womens locker room. I don't know. I mean, it's not exactly a policy they can enforce. So a man goes in the womens locker room, says he identifies as a woman, and now it's okay. What's to keep some men from lying?
But what do they get if they lie? The chance to ogle women's bodies? The chance to assault us? If a man wants to go in a women's locker room and assault someone, he will whether or not he has permission or he will find another space to do so. If the fear is being looked at by someone who find you attractive, how is that different than being a straight person sharing a locker room with a gay person? If you get naked in a semi-public space, there is always the chance somebody will check you out and there is no way to effectively police desire (nor should there be).
I want to agree with it, but it really seems to open the door to men (that identify as men) being in the womens locker room. I don't know. I mean, it's not exactly a policy they can enforce. So a man goes in the womens locker room, says he identifies as a woman, and now it's okay. What's to keep some men from lying?
This is what H and I were discussing earlier. I'm fully behind supporting someone in their gender journey, but it does bring up some interesting points. What is to stop someone from lying? And then how does that affect someone who truly does identify with the opposite gender? I wish it would be impossible to take advantage of something like this, makes me sad.
Did no one else watch Saved By The Bell where Screech pretended to be a girl so he could go in the girl's locker room?
If they could pull it off, anyone could. And again, punishing one group for the hypothetical actions of another group.
This is what I was trying to address with my previous post.
Comfort of having the same goods: Why is this more comfortable? Women are more comfortable with boobs over penises? Men prefer more penises over boobs? Is this actually true? It's actually kind of strange logic to me now that I've written it out. Ha.
Reduce assault/oggling: This argument makes no sense because those attracted to the same sex use same-sex locker rooms.
Tradition: This is my gut reaction to why we still have same sex changing rooms/bathrooms and it's probably time we stop and think about *why* we do it.
But, I'm also not thinking very clearly this morning so perhaps someone can expand on this.
EDIT: I'm all Planet Fitness with this one, by the way. My questions are not intended to be otherwise. I'm saying that there is no valid reason for excluding anyone from either room and perhaps we should away with them all together.
I wonder if it conservative Christian ideals. There are Christian blogs about women choosing not to wear yoga pants in public because they will tempt men that are not their husbands with their luscious loins. I can imagine they would have a shit fit over co-ed locker rooms.
I love tempting people with my luscious loins. Why else would I do so many fucking squats?
I wonder if it conservative Christian ideals. There are Christian blogs about women choosing not to wear yoga pants in public because they will tempt men that are not their husbands with their luscious loins. I can imagine they would have a shit fit over co-ed locker rooms.
I love tempting people with my luscious loins. Why else would I do so many fucking squats?
My only issue is that what prevents a non-trans man from throwing on some trans gender clothes and skeeving on the women's locker room. There has to be some standards. Like proof that you've been living that life or something. Not trying to sound discriminating, but I can see some perks taking FULL advantage of this.
eta: by pervs I meant the men trying to spy on the women. Not referring to the trans community as pervs.
A picture of a stick figure in a dress on the door is not going to keep pervs out. Voyeurs will find ways to victimize people regardless of rules.
And as has been mentioned, there are gays and lesbians who go to gyms who can see your equipment already.
Frankly, if someone's staring at you, report it. Otherwise who cares what junk a person has when changing for a workout.
This. I mean, I generally don't even notice other people in the locker rooms unless it's someone I know and am chatting with. I generally go in, do my business, and leave. If someone was oogling, lingering, acting shady, man or woman, I would feel uncomfortable and say something. But I'm not checking anyone else out because I'm tired and sweaty and usually rushing to be other places.
Are separate dressing rooms common in other countries? It's easy to say that the US has sex problems (and I agree), but what about countries with less puritanical histories?
I went to some hot baths in Iceland and they were separated by sex. But people were more comfortable being naked inside them. I think nude beaches are more common in other places than they are here.
Eta: the changing rooms were separated, not the baths...
OMG I was JUST about to post this same thing. About 15 years ago I went to Iceland with band (lol) and my 8th grade self was shocked at the nudity. Not in a bad way, but when you're 13 and with all your friends in the dressing room and EVERY other woman in there is nude it's definitely different. I do wish that we weren't such an uncomfortable culture; things would be so much easier.
I went to some hot baths in Iceland and they were separated by sex. But people were more comfortable being naked inside them. I think nude beaches are more common in other places than they are here.
Eta: the changing rooms were separated, not the baths...
OMG I was JUST about to post this same thing. About 15 years ago I went to Iceland with band (lol) and my 8th grade self was shocked at the nudity. Not in a bad way, but when you're 13 and with all your friends in the dressing room and EVERY other woman in there is nude it's definitely different. I do wish that we weren't such an uncomfortable culture; things would be so much easier.
I'm surprised that three people from this board alone have gone to Iceland. I didn't think it was that popular. I'm the only one I've me IRL that has gone. It is by far one of the most amazing countries and I have made it my mission to return there at some point.
@emilie818, If I had to deal with catcalls, being asked out constantly, creepsters, stalkers, etc at the gym constantly, I'd be complaining to management. There's no excuse for unwanted advances at a gym. Gyms are not going to want to lose their female clients. The good gyms will do something about it.
I have never once heard a cat call at my gym directed at me or anyone else for that matter. It would never in a million years be tolerated. And my gym is filled with people in their early 20s.
My gym would shut that shit down so fast; I mean, no. We have a big private college in town and there's a good amount of students that use my gym. I'm not gonna lie and say I've *never* glanced as I've walked by some cute college guys lifting, but I'm certainly not oogling. I mean, I'm walking by with my toddler who's going on and on about 'that lady is working out, that guy is working out! Have to pee, mommy!' so...haha. Yea. I've never heard or seen anyone making any sort of advances or anything remotely like that. It would definitely not be tolerated.
Can someone enlighten me, what is NIP? I Googled it and all I got was Ninjas in Pyjamas [sic]. There is also the National Institute for Psychotherapies, but I don't understand what being a mother has to do with that.
Post by kingsqueen131 on Mar 10, 2015 15:40:17 GMT -5
I has a lot to do with modesty. I go to the gym and I don't change in front of women I go in the stalls and change and I for damn sure do not want to share a locker room with strange men and I do not want my daughter to share one either. It starts from childhood and works it way up. So you start out in kindergarten with your same sex bathrooms, locker rooms, then dorm rooms, etc. We are not in peaceful times and sad to say that most attacks are men on women, not women on women, or men on men. Some people cannot control themselves and those are the ones that drill holes in the locker rooms and use cameras to look under women's skirts and I am glad that they will not have an open opportunity to be a perve. But if someone is living as a woman and has had the surgery and anatomically is a woman then I think that they should be able to share the locker room with other women as well.
But if someone is living as a woman and has had the surgery and anatomically is a woman then I think that they should be able to share the locker room with other women as well.
But if someone is living as a woman and has had the surgery and anatomically is a woman then I think that they should be able to share the locker room with other women as well.
You're saying that men are pervs. Predominantly, men are pervs.
But if a man becomes a woman, then he loses his perviness. Particularly if he loses his penis, then he loses his perviness. So perviness is directly related to anatomy and not the brain.
The generalizations and stereotypes are disgusting.
Post by ghostmonkey on Mar 10, 2015 15:53:04 GMT -5
Who are you to decide what will always be what your daughter wants? You can choose for now, but some day she might go against your conservative views on things.
What then? What if she decides that she is truly a he? Would you support him in his wishes to be treated like the gender he identifies with? Or will you continue to call him her even without the surgery because of some thing that was pounded into your head as what is right? Would you advocate for your child or would you shun them and go status quo?
Your whole comment about peaceful times is way out of place and the part about attacks has literally nothing to do with this conversation. Thus- FFS.
A sex change is not a brain change... They may feel more comfortable in a body that anatomically reflects their how they feel, but the surgery just changes appearance. Their gender identity was already female.
So, their behavior/attitude inside a locker room would not change.
You're saying that men are pervs. Predominantly, men are pervs.
But if a man becomes a woman, then he loses his perviness. Particularly if he loses his penis, then he loses his perviness. So perviness is directly related to anatomy and not the brain.
The generalizations and stereotypes are disgusting.
Now you are putting in my mouth, please don't do that. I am stating my opinion and what I am comfortable with. If you are so comfortable with it then how come you don't change in the men's locker room? I am raising a son I would pray that he is raised right and is a stand up guy. I also have a dad, uncles, a fiance, and cousins that are all stand up men, not a perv bone in their body. But when I am at the mall do I want to go in the same bathroom as my dad or the same locker room....no thank you and him being a perv is not even a question. Would I like to live in your perfect world sure, but take a look at a newpaper or turn on the news, its there everyday, but that's what forums are for you have your view on the issue and I have mine.
Now you are putting in my mouth, please don't do that. I am stating my opinion and what I am comfortable with. If you are so comfortable with it then how come you don't change in the men's locker room? I am raising a son I would pray that he is raised right and is a stand up guy. I also have a dad, uncles, a fiance, and cousins that are all stand up men, not a perv bone in their body. But when I am at the mall do I want to go in the same bathroom as my dad or the same locker room....no thank you and him being a perv is not even a question. Would I like to live in your perfect world sure, but take a look at a newpaper or turn on the news, its there everyday, but that's what forums are for you have your view on the issue and I have mine.
You're all kinds of contradicting yourself. I'm out.
But I will say this: would I change in the male locker room one day or pee in a male bathroom? Sure.
Who are you to decide what will always be what your daughter wants? You can choose for now, but some day she might go against your conservative views on things.
What then? What if she decides that she is truly a he? Would you support him in his wishes to be treated like the gender he identifies with? Or will you continue to call him her even without the surgery because of some thing that was pounded into your head as what is right? Would you advocate for your child or would you shun them and go status quo?
Your whole comment about peaceful times is way out of place and the part about attacks has literally nothing to do with this conversation. Thus- FFS.
That's right I choose now and I choose that she will go to the room with the door that is labeled with the little person in the skirt. Goodbye with all this hypothetical nothingness.
Now you are putting in my mouth, please don't do that. I am stating my opinion and what I am comfortable with. If you are so comfortable with it then how come you don't change in the men's locker room? I am raising a son I would pray that he is raised right and is a stand up guy. I also have a dad, uncles, a fiance, and cousins that are all stand up men, not a perv bone in their body. But when I am at the mall do I want to go in the same bathroom as my dad or the same locker room....no thank you and him being a perv is not even a question. Would I like to live in your perfect world sure, but take a look at a newpaper or turn on the news, its there everyday, but that's what forums are for you have your view on the issue and I have mine.
You're all kinds of contradicting yourself. I'm out.
But I will say this: would I change in the male locker room one day or pee in a male bathroom? Sure.
You're saying that men are pervs. Predominantly, men are pervs.
But if a man becomes a woman, then he loses his perviness. Particularly if he loses his penis, then he loses his perviness. So perviness is directly related to anatomy and not the brain.
The generalizations and stereotypes are disgusting.
Now you are putting in my mouth, please don't do that. I am stating my opinion and what I am comfortable with. If you are so comfortable with it then how come you don't change in the men's locker room? I am raising a son I would pray that he is raised right and is a stand up guy. I also have a dad, uncles, a fiance, and cousins that are all stand up men, not a perv bone in their body. But when I am at the mall do I want to go in the same bathroom as my dad or the same locker room....no thank you and him being a perv is not even a question. Would I like to live in your perfect world sure, but take a look at a newpaper or turn on the news, its there everyday, but that's what forums are for you have your view on the issue and I have mine.
I know this is not a perfect world, believe me, and my comfort level is to not change in front of males that are not family (DH, LO etc), but I know gender is not always cut and dry or penis and vagina. That is where your message gets dicey.
That's right I choose now and I choose that she will go to the room with the door that is labeled with the little person in the skirt. Goodbye with all this hypothetical nothingness.
I only go in the door that is labeled with a little person in a skirt if I'm actually wearing a skirt that day. Turns out I'm wearing pants today so I will go in the other one instead.
That's right I choose now and I choose that she will go to the room with the door that is labeled with the little person in the skirt. Goodbye with all this hypothetical nothingness.
I only go in the door that is labeled with a little person in a skirt if I'm actually wearing a skirt that day. Turns out I'm wearing pants today so I will go in the other one instead.
But the other one is just a naked stick figure. Drop 'em!
You're saying that men are pervs. Predominantly, men are pervs.
But if a man becomes a woman, then he loses his perviness. Particularly if he loses his penis, then he loses his perviness. So perviness is directly related to anatomy and not the brain.
The generalizations and stereotypes are disgusting.
Now you are putting in my mouth, please don't do that. I am stating my opinion and what I am comfortable with. If you are so comfortable with it then how come you don't change in the men's locker room? I am raising a son I would pray that he is raised right and is a stand up guy. I also have a dad, uncles, a fiance, and cousins that are all stand up men, not a perv bone in their body. But when I am at the mall do I want to go in the same bathroom as my dad or the same locker room....no thank you and him being a perv is not even a question. Would I like to live in your perfect world sure, but take a look at a newpaper or turn on the news, its there everyday, but that's what forums are for you have your view on the issue and I have mine.
1. It's against policy and that would get my membership revoked (and in some places is subject to fines). 2. Men's locker rooms smell worse.
Stop turning this into a violence issue. You are no different the woman that raised hell and tried to incite violence over this issue already. You are trying to cause an issue where there is none because of some upbringing you had. My MIL was brought up that anyone that isn't white should be avoided at all costs because they will beat you and steal from you. Sounds like that same pile of shit you are spewing against men.
You are sexist. And sadly you will instill fear into your daughter and a right into your son that will perpetuate your sexist views.
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